What to do about a tyrant

There  have been some rather incendiary comments of late outlining all sorts of horrible fates that people wish for DM. Some I allowed to let people vent, but some I deleted as they were crossing the line. I note that most of the more vehement cries demand that someone else do something about DM. And those people have yet to even take the square zero step of standing up and being counted.  Why is that important? All of  the power of a tyrant derives from people’s willingness to listen to him. Miscavige knows this all too well. See the following from a 1998 interview  in the St. Pete Times:

“People keep saying, ‘How’d you get power?’ ” Miscavige said. “Nobody gives you power. I’ll tell you what power is. Power in my estimation is if people will listen to you. That’s it.”

I recently listened to the Thought, Emotion and Effort lecture series. LRH makes a very strong case for it being a stupid idea to fight force with force. Even when you are dealing with a tyrant. Read this excerpt for example:

“And, you see, when you have operated oppressively, if you operate oppressively, then it’s much easier to fail because there’s a bunch of causes standing around who want to cause you to be an effect. And the more people you try to effect, the more thoroughly they’re going to try to cause you to be an effect until all of a sudden you cave in. People watch this modus operandi. They say,’Well, if everybody sat down and hated Stalin for fifteen minutes a day he would die. Now we will all play ‘The Girl I Left Behind Me.” It’s not true. Possibly have some modus operandi, if he knew about it, possibly. You might be able to shove that many in. No, the way to fix up Stalin is to invite him on an enormously broad program where everybody’s going to be an effect but then rig it in such a way that he fails. He’ll cave in. That’s the only way he’ll really cave in.” – 19 Nov 1951, Cause and Effect (continued).

Don’t waste your time with fantasizing the dramatization of evil purposes.  Get on with life, help others get on with theirs. Create communities where the subject is no longer monopolized by a suppressive madman.


75 responses to “What to do about a tyrant

  1. Marty, Please let yourself be interviewed by the NRM (new religious movement) scholars. Scientology will outlast Miscavige, and all future king of the mountain tyrannical opportunists who fill LRH’s big boots. It’s a human, tribal, tribal leader thing. LRH didn’t set up a method of electing the top leader role, COB RTC. This is in important omission. LRH set up guidelines for permanent posting of the execs at all echelons, including WDC and Int Exec Strata, but sadly, there is NO discussion of how to realistically try to do what even LRH failed to do, which is “put a stable top management there.”

    I think Miscavige will be a blip in history, and Scientology will go on, in the decades to come, mainly due to the writings of Hubbard keeping those in the staff echelons going on auto pilot, studying their hats, aspiring to do what Hubbard says in the policies and issues in their hat packs.

    Hatting is still being done in the upper Sea Org staff echelons, the cognitive dissonance will go on, with the staff reading LRH say one thing, and see their tyrant top leaders like Miscavige acting out irrational behavior on the other hand.

    I would like to see you interviewed, and start reading some of the scholars’ books, my favorite all time one to start with, is Roy Wallis’ “The Road to Total Freedom.”

    Chuck Beatty
    ex Sea Org, 1975-2003
    RPFer from Jul 96 to Mar 2003!!
    412-260-1170, Pittsburgh, USA

  2. Marty is your hair getting grayer or are you just getting wiser every day?

    A very wise post from you, indeed.

  3. What a great point, Marty. A few years ago there was a TV movie, “Merlin”, and in it there was an evil sorceress, Maeve. The way they ultimately handled her was turning their back on her and not granting her any beingness. That ended her and her power and control. When I saw that I knew how true it was. But as long as they acknowledged and feared her, she had power. Great point you made.

  4. This is a great truth. There are also many ways to make him feel as if he is attacked but isn’t. This would work wonders. Standing by only LRH and ignoring DM is the best way to do this. Follow actual policy and Bulletins. Ignore his programs by saying as you should, “This is off policy”. Passive resistence will ensure he loses. Dry up his resources while you flurish and prosper. I have had SO members come to my house to “handle me” and I just say, “Not per policy so I don’t donate”. They may get livid but you just look like you don’t understand and repeat yourself. Always stable in your view of LRH and his LOVE for is fellow.

    • This is a great post by someone who knows on a practical path to passive resistance. Just saying and repeating, “Not per policy so I don’t donate.” Remarkable in its simplicity and power. Well done, Jimmy Rebel.

    • I have a re-occurring thought upon reading the comments on many of Marty’s postings. People cite policy the shows the outpoints in the current church’s operation and its management.

      It would be very helpful if every time this occurs, the outpoint and the policy it violates, could be noted on an easily accessible web page, so that others could refer to it later.

      In Jimmy rebel’s example above the scenario is an IAS reg cycle….something that may well happen repeatedly to others. It would be cool to be able to refer to the policy by title, and have such available easily…sort of crib notes on scientology?

      • martyrathbun09

        Mary Jo’s full report at Scientology-Cult.com gives quite a few good policy references.

      • Dave, That’s a great idea. If you want to do the footwork on this, and create an article, you can submit it for posting on Scientology-cult.com and I’ll post it as a reference for people. It’s a great idea. I’d do it myself, but there are only so many hours in a day! — Steve

      • As luck would have it, someone sent me (last night) just such an article. I will publish it for now as an article, and later turn it into a wiki. Look for it under Knowledge Center at http://www.scientology-cult.com. I should have it online later today.

  5. Thank you Marty for this great post.

    You are absolutely right. More people are standing up and our Independent Scientology Group is expanding and we are winning.

    We are CAUSE! :0)

  6. Another way to look at what Marty is saying here is: If all Scientologists recognize DM as a suppressive and make a personal ethics decision to disconnect from him, this alone will render him powerless and finish him.

    The good news is -this is happening daily.

    Sites that supply information to let a Scientologist make up his own mind about DM are truly helpful, whereas sites that spew hate and malice and general HE&R are a waist of time. They look biased to a reader -and therefore do nothing to strip DM of his power.

    When you are writing a KR, you best stick to the facts to help the investigator see a clear picture of what has happened. The truth speaks for itself.

    As tempting as spewing dramatizations of evil purposes can be, it’s better to keep your TRs in and stick to the facts.

    As a good friend of ours said “Endurance asserts the truth of unkillability.”. Stay the course and get the truth out there.

  7. Concerned Citizen

    I love this post Marty, the game here is not to oppose; other people are playing that game.

    I was going to mention that this group has had several milestones recently. That is what we should be concentrating our attention on.

    Of course exposing the constant policy violations is paramount, but besides that we ought to pour the coals on PURPOSE.

    Marty you are a brilliant man, you and your team are. I am very humbled and honored to be able to understand you, (means I did not lose my self determinism ) and to have the opportunity to support this effort.

    That which we grant beingness grows, so I’m on board with you, let’s grant beingness to our new game, just like you said said and forget those who don’t really deserve so much as a second thought.

    • Yes, and simply by connecting with this dialog and getting others to connect, one by one, we are dissolving the Emperor’s clothes. He’s already buck naked for many (not a pretty sight) and losing his wardrobe fast where others are concerned. When people start doing cat calls from the audience, his reign will be over since at that point when he looks in the mirror, he will even be naked to himself. As LRH said, the truth has a way of penetrating everything. It is penetrating now to public and ex-staff, then to staff. All this may happen quickly or it may happen over time; I don’t know for sure, but I see it is already growing on an exponential curve. Most of all, I know if we simply continue to communicate, that will solve everything because communication is the universal solvent and when we are communicating to bring transparency to Scientology, that is like ACID to David Miscavige. Man, it’s acid in his face. Who needs violence, when simple communication corrodes him like the Wicked Witch of the West? All that got her was ordinary water. Great metaphor. Simplicity = Power.

      Remember too, as Marty and I have discussed, that near the top of the Know to Mystery Scale is “Not Know.” We don’t have to know everything. It is okay to “not know” some things. All these details will work themselves out.

      Every person who reads and posts on these websites, exchanging ideas like Jimmy Rebel on how to apply passive resistance to an IAS reg… Concerned Citizen, RJ, and all the others, you guys are major players in changing the condition of Scientology because communication is the root of it all. You guys are leading the way for the millions and setting a great example of what it really means to be a Scientologist: free thinking, independent, courageous enough to apply Personal Integrity. You guys should each look over the Code of Honor. I think you will find you have each point IN.

      My hat is off to you all.

      • Concerned Citizen

        I don’t think I have ever been grnated so much beingness in my life, as I have in this group. Thanks Steve

      • Thanks Thoughtful 🙂

        But you know if it wasn’t for you, Marty and Geir spending all the time it takes to create a venue as you guys have. We’d be preachin’ to the choir of the Holy Church of the Discontented.

        So if no one has thanked you guys for all the hard work you’ve all done to get our message out and contribute wisdom to it. I’d like to thank you all from the bottom of my heart.

        You guys are doing a great job and I’m proud to be a part of whatever it is we’re trying to do (just kiddin’:) )

        I know what we’re doing has immense impact because I see it every day!

        We’re causing an effect, highest purpose Axiom 10. Not only that but it’s a beneficial effect!

        So I tip my theta hat to you guys who have given a channel to flow on 🙂

        Now before I mix to many metaphors thanks again.



  8. What I see regarding Miscavige in some cases is a thirst for revenge. That is to get even.

    I’ve even seen some posts were people have suggested wet work! One way guaranteed to turn a villain into a martyr!

    Me I’d be happy if the lil’ guy just packed up and went away and took his friends from the dark side with him.

    That said in the meantime there is nothing wrong with pointing out his flagrant violations of tech and policy.

    As Chuck has astutely pointed out in the long run in the future Miscavige will probably looked upon as a bump in the road. A nasty bump but a bump non the same 🙂

  9. In The Way to Happiness, on the subject of governments, LRH says this: “Unscrupulous and evil men and groups can usurp the power of government and use it to their own ends…Opposition to such governments usually just brings on more violence. But one can raise his voice in caution when such abuses are abroad. And one need not actively support such a government; doing nothing illegal, it is yet possible, by simply withdrawing one’s cooperation, to bring about an eventual reform.”

    • Yeah, I have been thinking along the same lines. There is not necessarily any need for a revolution which often destroys everything and create a situation worse than the one before.
      That is also why I think that those who are on the inside can do a lot. Just get your family and friends to read the real stories and see the videos , really look at what is there and make up their own minds. That is also taking action and will help increase the push for change by people starting to ask questions and see statistics.
      Btw, this is not meant as a disrespect for those who decides to leave. I can definitely understand that choice as well. Only, don’t fall into the trap of just getting more and more negative and unreasonable trying to find fault with every little detail.
      Remember, that there is the subject of Scientology and what it can do for people — also those who are in the church. Getting the real outpoints out int the open, that’s where the focus should be — not on taking any opportunity to criticize this or that person in an overly emotional and generalized way.
      This is also why I like this and Geir Isene’s website: That they focus on the essential!

    • Thanks Rebel008, and for anyone who has not seen his latest post on “Leaving Scientology” you have to check out “Here Come the Thought Police” at http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/

      And fasten your seat belt, you’re in for a bumpy ride on the latest intel from behind Miscavige’s Iron Curtain.

  10. Very good point you made here, Marty.

    Fighting with an SP does little but allow the SP to win because you are playing their game.

    I forget the actual LRH quote but I think it’s a later LRHED where he says “flourish and prosper” is the “deadliest way to get even” with an SP.

    Being introverted into doing things to others doesn’t qualify.

    Exposing crimes to the relevant authorities does.

    Educating others about these same crimes does too.

  11. MissedGarbage Watcher

    We don’t listen to Miscavige.
    But we need to watch him
    and share the information about him.

    This blog is appreciated because of it.

  12. Wise words indeed. I would only add that education is a vital first step. Brainwashed beings are not going to suddenly wake up and walk of their own accord. After 15 years + of Nazi indoctrination the average German citizen totally believed that Jews were the root of all evil in the world. Could the Holocaust have happened if the populace had stood up as one and said “No”. Of course not. An e mail from just a regular Sup at my local org to a disaffected public the other day was full of teary-eyed devotion at “the wonderful work Mr Miscavige is doing”.
    Therefore it behooves all of us I believe to get the truth out to as many as possible as fast as possible, as well as getting on with our lives. It’s rewarding work too. Perhaps some in this community have been de-Miscaviged for so long they’ve forgotten what it was like, walking through into the sunlight and realising what it means not to be PTS again. There will be thousands of confused and disorientated staff (and public) who will need us as stable terminals when Miscavology completely implodes. But I will also have a quiet glass of champagne the day DM is RPFed/taken away in handcuffs!

  13. Mark,

    Given the amount of suffering caused by David Miscavige’s reign of terror at the helm of the Church of Scientology, it is hardly surprising that there are very many people who are extremely angry and wish him a great deal of harm.

    Personally, I don’t particularly wish him to suffer some horrible fate, but I would like to see him answer for any criminal acts he has been involved in. Obviously for this to happen, anyone who has witnessed any such acts would have to go to the relevant law-enforcement agencies and make statements and provide evidence. Do you know anyone who might fall into this category?

    Also, and more importantly, I would like to see David Miscavige removed from post, forced to repay his ill-gotten gains and made apologise to every Scientologist who has been ripped off and denied the full benefit of the subject. Not so much for the humiliation that this would entail, but because it would be a necessary part of enabling those affected to be able to understand what happened to them and be able to move on with their lives.


  14. That’s very correct!

  15. I too am a believer in “non-violence” when it comes to dealing with others and matters with which one takes issue.

    But, IMHO, that does not mean that there will not be a reckoning that will rock little Davey’s world.

    Several years ago when I was one of the only people I knew using his/her own name while pointing out how Miscavige beat staff and was guilty of many other abuses, lies and the like, his attorney told my attorney that neither Miscavige nor organized scientology will be changed, reformed or otherwise affected from the outside.

    Oh really? LOL

    I was threatened by them falsely listing “crimes” I must have for even daring to expose Miscavige and the abuses that happen behind the scenes there. We all see this happening again to many people who are doing nothing more than telling the truth in the hopes of abuses ending.

    Not that much happened from just what I said but since then events are happening and many people are speaking out around the world to bring the truth front and center.

    Despite their threats, religious cloaking, whole sale abuses, policy of discrimination and hate and their apparent “power” to hold onto it all, I see Karma arriving into DM’s world. DM and the organized scientology he represents are being confronted with truth approaching them from a hundred directions, demanding a reckoning.

    In my opinion, what can be called “Karma” does not forget, nor does it forgive. It just is and serves as the great equalizer. It may do it in humor, it may do it behind the scenes, it may do it Anonymously and be the voice of many who could otherwise not speak out, or it may do it in any other way or combination of ways. But it WILL happen, and to all things there will eventually be a reckoning.

    By all means focus on the better parts of life and carry forward with that which you love or which you deem important. But realize that in the case of some people this means pointing out and dealing with the crimes, abuses and lies by David Miscavige and imbedded within organized scientology. And a reckoning will happen nonetheless. And, IMHO, love will win in the end.

    You don’t have to hate to let the world know of a dangerous man and a dangerous group. In fact, I submit, that it is important to let the truth be known far and wide or as to help ensure others are not hurt.

    Here is to truth, to families and to love:

    • Larry,
      I think you have hit THE vital point in all this, the concept of karma.

      In the business of living one’s acts (karma) have a sort of ‘ledger/balance sheet’. There is a reciprocity of what you put out lays open a channel on which it will return. This agreement as to mechanics is what is at play with DM. Here’s a key part of it, if one doesn’t respond to DM’s vicious acts, in kind, then mechanically, like a rubber band stretched to its limit, those acts will come back on DM, by the laws of life.

      The vacuum he creates around him by the outgoing violence, if not returned by others to give him a ‘look, see, that’s why I did it’ (even though this justification is after the fact) will and indeed has, created a backflow of his own violence against himself.

      That is the answer that wise men have exhorted for thousands of years. It’s expressed in ‘turn the other cheek’, ‘ love despite all provocation otherwise’, ‘ don’t succumb to hating those who hate you’ and such. Another, an SP only gets power from others. If one simply flourishes and prospers in life and doesn’t change to hate despite what is done to him, then there is no place that that hatred aimed at him can land. It returns to sender.

      DM has stretched the rubber band to its limit, and like all such, it is now on its way back to him, and truth be told, he’s the one holding it.

      We simply let it go and get on with the business of living decent, humane and prosperous lives. Those acts, they are karma too.

    • Indeed Larry. However I’m afraid Anonymous rather lived up to their name tonight at the IAS event. I just about made out a few in the dark Rugby Club car park next door to SH, and that was it. I know it’s a tough venue with the tight road, but really…The real action was apparently in the car park where some bright spark got over 300 copies of the 31 Factors onto attendees car windscreens.

      • That is good news IAS attendee!

      • The protestors at the IAS event were hampered by the environment. There isn’t even a footpath there with the result that everyone had to stand on a narrow grass verge sandwiched between the narrow road and a hedge. The cult had even placed large tubs with shrubs to further hamper any gathering. It would be impossible to have more than about 30 protestors there without seriously compromising safety. As it was, they had to leave when it got dark as there is no lighting on that road.

        And, when an enterprising group managed to navigate their way to the rear of the castle, immediately next to the main marquee, the cult (allegedly) phoned the landowner to get permission to have them removed.

        Even so, there were many attendees at this event that saw the protestors and their banners. They now know that the CoS isn’t getting things all it’s own way.

        And, I’d like to remind everyone that thousands of conscientious people gathered under the banners of Anonymous to protest the abuses of the CoS while many Scientologists who were unhappy with the direction the church has taken were wringing their hands and being too scared to do anything about it.

    • Larry,
      I don’t mean to suggest that the rubber band effect be ‘should not be helped along’. Just not with a vicious intention, mirroring that of DM.

    • My thanks go to all the early whistle blowers out there.


  16. Thank you again Marty for pointing out such a clear way forward. You are in great company!

    “Nonviolence means avoiding not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him.” Martin Luther King

    “We may never be strong enough to be entirely nonviolent in thought, word and deed. But we must keep nonviolence as our goal and make strong progress towards it.”
    Mahatma Gandhi


  17. “There’s battle lines being drawn
    nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong
    young people speakin there minds
    getting so much resistance far behind

    it’s time we stop,
    hey what’s that sound
    everybody look what’s goin down”
    – Buffalo Springfield (For What it is Worth)

    I grew up in a state who’s Motto was “Sic Semper Tyrannis” (Thus Always to Tyrants).
    They come and they go. “The evil die in their own generation. We don’t. We work in eternity.” – LRH

    What I find most worthy of note and hope for the future is the young generation of people who have taken advantage of the open communications lines of the world, and engaged upon actions of raising awareness and reform about all forms of tyranny. And while the Anons may come to mind here as one of those groups, I would also include the young people in Italy standing up to the Mafia (google “Addiopizzo” for more information), the grass roots campaigns for organic food, clean energy, and other “greatest good” activities.

    If we support each other, and deliver good tech, and maintain our own integrity, there really is nothing that will get in our way. Reward the decent honest people. The rest can compete on Reality TV for the “Biggest Loser” awards. And no one will watch…

    • Concerned Citizen

      I have a question, I have read a few posts here and there where Anonymous has received some measure of praise. I’m beginning to think I have a skewed view of this group, but when I visit their forums, again and again I find I can only take about 3 seconds of all the name calling, LRH bashing, demands to destroy all Scientology and efforts to invalidate people’s wins and beliefs.

      So if I’m missing the more rational, respectful and benign majority, those elements of the group that cause this praise, can someone point me to them?

      Otherwise, I think they are more of a roadblock, I remember thinking how, there is a lot wrong with he Church, but at least there is more right than the all out hate feast displayed by Anonymous.

      Remember, almost heroically, many Scientologist within the Church and yes the SO, are managing to apply scientology successful and so are winning, this things described here are not all visible to many and the few that are, get explained away enough to satisfy one for now.

      So the Scientologist who know some things are wrong, and would like to understand, sees this group’s actions and thinks, ok, so the Church takes drastic measures to fend off this kind of insane and hateful attack, (they don’t know all that is exposed here) and only grow more doggedly dedicated to the cause, it also prevents one from reaching, I had virtually stopped looking anything about the Church up on the net for years due to that same phenomena.

      Ours is a much more sane group, much more effective. There may have been some voices of reason among all that hate and anger, but it was very difficult to sift through it to find the valuable data. For example, just because they consider the upper levels a joke, gives them no license to completely run over our sincere belief that they are best kept out of the hands of those not ready for the materials.

      They mis-quote this data and plaster it all over the net desecrating something sacred to us. If anyone tries to say anything decent about the church, the showers of invalidations and entheta are overwhelming.

      They say the fight for human rights and violate our right to continence constantly

      So please show me this praise worthy Anonymous of which you speak , I just can’t find it.

      • You’re right CC you go to WWP and it’s nuttin’ but entheter but the fact is that to many who have been in this fight against Miscavige and his self created cult for a long time it’s the old cynical adage that “my enemy’s enemy is my friend”.

        Most of us had no where else to go to till Thoughtful Steve, Marty and Geir showed up on the scene ‘cept maybe ARS, ESMB or worse OCB where voices of reason and tolerance as you astutely pointed out got snuffed out pretty fast.

        Any way don’t worry about those guys, like Miscavige they too shall pass.

      • I’m not a member of Anonymous, however on their behalf, they weren’t the ones who started the fight! Sure they are making a lot of noise — but all of it is in response to David Miscavige’s blind adversarial hostility to anyone who crosses his path.

        I created a new section yesterday, a Knowledge Center, with key LRH references. One of them is the old Dianetics Jingle that goes, “Motion comes in, use and win.” This has directly applicability to our situation today. Crimes have been exposed online, and other things I don’t really want to comment on here because I don’t want to teach OSA a lesson on their own folly. They continue to blunder, blunder, blunder, and what Miscavige does is blunder up everything 5.4X even what OSA does.

        But I think in the broad scheme of things, Anonymous is serving a purpose and there is a “synergy by default” here.

        They have a right to speak out, and to “counter, utter or right upon the opinions of others” just as it guarantees in the Creed of the Church.

        The new section is located at http://www.scientology-cult.com/declarations-of-independence/knowledge-center.html

      • Concerned Citizen

        Thank you guys, I actually get what both of you are saying. I just know it is great to have this group here. I love this approach, I loved the new post in Scientology-Cult. About how we are different . Most of all I love that people who need us will find us.

  18. Well done piece. I am in agreement with the fact that studying Scientology is about knowing the policy and applying it. Many people have stepped up knowing that it was not being applied.
    There will be those who will interpret policy to be whatever they want it to be in order to justify certain actions .

    I suppose everyone comes through to the other side eventually. We all go through whatever we go through I am convinced for a reason. A true learning experience in this time,things we can take with us to move us into a higher realm. I personally beieve that to truly grant beingness is quite a quality and one that most strive for.

    I do on the other hand feel that DM will someday come to his senses and I truly don’t know what that will mean.I just know for myself, my integrity is what all of this is about and I won’t give that up for anything or anyone.

    • Here is a question: Would you be willing to sit down and audit DM’s “Confessional”? With full in tech and TR’s?

      I wonder what would happen if enough of us said “yes”?

  19. Silence Do Good

    I really wonder, if everyone concerned just stop thinking, posting, wondering, talking about, acknowledging and granting life to all that is David Miscavige and the troubles of Scientology, in a much shorter time, would resolution find itself.

    If everyone went their way to improve their own life using all the wisdom they sought fit, would reality change; I Wonder. Let’s think, we all know and have some agreement to what is happening in its many forms, stories and opinions.

    Agreement, the backbone of reality. Let’s take this in reverse, we know what the reality is and we know it good, so good in fact, it’s so solid that all else who are unaware at this point are sure to find it someday, that’s how real it is. We fear so much this reality, we have decided to cause others to hear us and follow are words as the only salvation to their reality.

    If everyone under Dave’s command or still effected by him, changed their minds in regards to the power in which he and the Church have over them, freedom from, would come knocking.

    Now of course we can all say that’s just stupid, what if a guy with a knife was coming after you and you just stood there saying I don’t agree; you would get stabbed, we all know that. As well the agreement you want to change is obvious, don’t get stabbed, Right. What about the agreement that is just before that, you know the one. I can’t do anything, I’ve been fooled, I’m just one person, I did it too, I don’t know enough, I don’t care, It will hurt me too, I never did anything wrong, why me etc..

    The interesting thing is you don’t find to many agreements of this kind: I should have known better, I didn’t have to hit him, I didn’t have to lie, I didn’t have to do it wrong, I didn’t have to violate the auditing session, or tell my PC he’s no good. I didn’t have to show someone how bad I got it etc..

    So I guess it comes down to which set of agreements you want to continue to make reality. I unfortunately do not have such wisdom to give, and even if I did giving it to you would do no good. Just a little food for thought!

  20. “I note that most of the more vehement cries demand that someone else do something about DM. And those people have yet to even take the square zero step of standing up and being counted.”
    What an odd thing to say. So all those old guard critics, all those anonymous, all those who post under their real names or not, all saying “don’t follow David Miscavige” in one form or another and many of them doing it while you were still supporting him. None of those have “have yet to even take the square zero step of standing up and being counted.”
    What an odd thought.
    Are you going to post this? I think you deleted my last comment. What are you going to do when this dialogue moves to a more open forum?

  21. Hey Marty
    Not sure I understand your response, it is kinda cryptic. Do you mean that I am only addressing two sentences out of your post?
    The rest?
    Don’t fight force with force. OK.
    How about this:
    “Don’t waste your time with fantasizing the dramatization of evil purposes. Get on with life, help others get on with theirs. Create communities where the subject is no longer monopolized by a suppressive madman.”
    The assumption being that others haven’t? That you are doing something new? I think you are just uninformed then though I think I have seen you bashing FZ and the folks that left in the 80’s when DM was stamping around consolidating his power. I think you need to start including your spiritual predecessors. You don’t need to be bashing anyone, IMO, except DM and those still in that witness, contribute to, or knowingly allow his game to be played. Folks need to realize that “Your self-determinism and your honor are more important than your immediate life” should maybe be read as “Your self-determinism and your honor are more important than your immediate life or any promise of spiritual freedom”. There is not spiritual freedom for the abuser or his enablers.

  22. OTambassadortoo

    LRH said:
    26 September 69

    I would feel pretty bad if a lot of good guys had to live with the road blocked. And I don ‘t see any real reason why Standard Dianetics, so taught wouldn’t be fully effective.
    Like anybody else, I have had my own share of slings and arrows over the years and I know what it is like.”
    It isn’t all that easy to help one’s fellows and to be helped in return. But the end product is itself worth a lot of slings and arrows.
    The road out is the way up.
    I hope you make it.
    Best of Luck”
    L RON HUBBARD founder

    • Hi,
      I don’t get the point you are trying to make here. I know it is an LRH quote but what are YOU trying to say?

      • OTambassadortoo

        Hi Alex, What I mean is that we have to apply the Tech eaven if we get hurt. That sometimes is hard to say I will persist in my vews, in my truth, and in the help I can give, despite others harming us, (apply greatness).
        LRH had hard times too. As we also have had them too, he persisted and here we are… If we could think for a seccond that LRH tech was unimportant to each one of us, we wouldn’t be doing what we are doing from our own reality. If people is looking at this blog, and are seeing what goes inside the church, some times takes time to confront…. But we are getting TA action. People are opening their eyes and are looking for some group that sees the same we do. Lets continue, the way out is the way through!

      • Thanks OT Ambassadortoo.
        I got it now. I agree with that.

  23. DM did not accomplish his “achievements” alone. He had the assistance of every senior exec, every SO member, every org & mission staffer, and every public scientologist within the Co$ structure. All scientologists are responsible for what the Co$ has become. Clearly, not all scientologists hold EQUAL responsibility, but it is a serious ethical error to think the abuses which have been propagated are the result of one man, or even that they all necessarily began under the leadership of David Miscavige.

    Personally I think an internal “Truth Commission” is warranted to establish for the historical record exactly what has transpired within the Co$.

    I also consider that criminal prosecution should follow for any criminal violations which have taken place either at the official direction of legally constituted church management, or by church agents acting on their own initiative.

    • MAB,
      I agree that a ‘truth commission’ on the order of a standard running of the 3D engram is very much needed. That’s already in progress on various blogs and websites and the Truth Rundown interviews and such.

      As to the other part of your post, tell me you weren’t just a spectator in all that has transpired and you too, extrapolating from what you wrote, would have a cause point on all that has transpired. Or maybe you are the mythical counterpart to DM, another perfect being. Nah…

    • Mark, I think that you need to consider “motive” when looking to place blame. Motive and also the knowledge and understanding of what is being planned and whether one has the ability to stop it. In this blog you have for the most part people who decided not to be a party to actions they felt objectionable. For some the realization was sooner than others. But again, for the most part those here were driven by a desire to help and believed their actions and efforts were the best chance for mankind. Being on staff was a serious obligation they took upon themselves. And the organization was driven by commands from the top down. That does not excuse bad acts, but again you have to be back to motive and understanding. Anyone who knowlingly commited a crime is another story and i do not disagree with you on that point.

      • Mark A. Baker

        Blame is of no interest to me. My post dealt with questions of individual responsibility & possible criminality.

  24. The article reads “What to DO about a tyrant”.

    It´s a fact that of the current 38 comments only 9 have his real name posted.

    As far as I know the “food for thought” hasn´t improved a single condition alone since beginning of mankind. Thought plus action has done a lot.

    It´s true that many people has come before us openly and covertly doing a lot to change the bad things.
    We were blind back then; I can only speak for me. Im sorry.

    Before Marty speaks out; Larry and Jason were some of the only stable datums that I can have.

    Jason has a few weeks not posting here; but carry on doing things to expose the outnesses.

    Larry is here.

    From my humble viewpoint it is important that more people decide to speak up visibly for one main factor. FEAR.

    Many scientologist have fear; so I wonder:
    Fear of what?
    That your family and friends disconects from you because someone tells them to do so?

    It hurts.
    But also hurts that someone doesn´t love you enough to say to a OSA member:
    “I don´t care what you say; he´s not an SP.”

    There´s no other fear. You can´t advance having such a ommision in your face all the time. It´s like a continuous out-ruds situation.

    There´s freedom. You can stand up or stay low. Here isn´t the coercion factor.

    It´s your very own view of what´s correct to do.

    Many of us are getting our families improving at the same time that we receive attacks from all scientology fronts and even from “friends”.

    You don´t have to pass through it if you don´t want to.

    Only tell me…

    If, this reform, this correction roundup, if we DO make it…

    What will be your answer to this…

    Did you help in the time needed in the order of magnitude needded?

    Life, goodwill people and God bless us all. Give us strength.
    We need it.

  25. Marty Thoughtful Geir et al: Another important point I think you are achieving in your post is the differentiation between DM and Scientology. There are many Scientologists who believe in the tech and genuinely admire LRH. Somehow DM has gotten many public to identify himself with Scientology. Pointing out the specific areas where he is not, in fact, operating per LRH policy helps to make public see that he does not equal Scientology.
    That may, in the long run, do much more than shouting epithets

  26. IAS attendee, that made my day.

    • Thanks – I’m told it was fun! Looking at scientology-cult site stats since it seems a lot of folk found the data and references contained therein rather interesting too. I hope some took it to the seminars on saturday…

  27. David Miscavige: I know who you are and I know what you’ve done.

  28. This is from NY org email mailing to public

    Reason to train #1:
    Get the help you need in order to get
    you moving and expanding.
    Start Your BASICS Book and
    Lecture Courses Now!

    I saw it and thought, “oh good, they’re pushing auditor training again”, then scanned down the page and it’s NOT about auditor training, but the basics. I believe the wins people are writing up in their success stories from reading the basics, but we need auditors.

    • Not only that, the freaking basic books ARE ON Academy Training, and always have been. It really is twisted man.

  29. Yeah exactly, why alter the sequence from what LRH said to do? It’s altering the whole bridge. Veteran public are all on flat out basics but haven’t gotten auditor training. I asked my org’s course sup about this and he said

    “You’re going to have to do it eventually so might as well do it now.” ??

  30. Sounds like a justification for not telling the authorities what you know.
    The only information you have given out is in regards DM, not the rest of the crimes you know about that Scientology has committed.
    If you really felt that way, you would never have done the videos for the St Times.
    I find that very interesting.

    • Truthrules,
      If you really intend to live up to your namesake then best you get off the nebulous generality of ‘Scientology’ as you’ve used it.

      I understand it’s hard as you aren’t a Scientologist, to discern the subject from its practitioners, the corporate entities and so on, or those whose intentions with the material aren’t positive, but if you make the effort, you’ll find more truth about this whole scene and indeed, your truth will rule.

      Or you can remain in a state of cursory grasp of the issues and be part of the problem.

      Over to you.

  31. David Miscavige power stems from our willingness to listening to him. This home site aims to put an end to it. MAB has said that we (exceptions not included), has listened too much to David Miscavige’s ideas, and we did so because our longing for spiritual freedom blurred our sense of integrity as Disinfected has said. I was too much a sheeple here in Sweden because of said blinders, and it has cost me a lot of money, but I have learned my lesson the hard way, because nowadays I am more a Lone Wolf my personal integrity is more important to me, than spiritual freedom; integrity first, spiritual freedom next!

  32. Here’s a couple mission holders talking about franchise missions and how it’s so messed up:

    I have a little experience with missions. I have been at some successful ones and have owned two that failed and closed. ( Hispanic LA and Ft. Myers). The whole evolution of getting an affluent person to buy a Mission package and have them open it, staff it, and support it through its growth assuming it will eventually make money, does not work very well in my experience.
    Celebrities cast the glow initially, but it is the staff who run it day to day with the celeb far away in Beverly Hills. SMI promotes HELP in buckets, and actually gives very little. They provide written advice, and you pay lots of money for it. When you do sell a book or a course, they take 10% plus 5% plus 2 1/2% for royalties, Gold film fees, Gold this Gold that, until you wake up one day realizing you own a business that pays 20% OFF THE TOP on everything you do. The remaining 80% pays rent, staff pay, power, phones, etc.
    The successful missions of the 1960’s and 70’s actually made money when Flag was not sending rip off missions in to steal their cash.
    It’s a bunch of mad monkeys. Hard to grasp the logic in any of it.
    other mission holder:
    I was around the mission network before the takeover and after. The money thing runs a bit deeper, actually. Before SMI, during the franchise years, the missions were opened by auditors. Mostly class 6s and 8s. Actually almost all Scientologists were auditors. The C/Ses were almost always Class 8, The HGC was manned with Class 8s and Class 6s. The rest of the staff had done either HSDC or the Acad levels. This was typical in the mission network through the 70s. The requirement to open a mission was that you were a trained auditor.

    When SMI took over, after the raids in the early 80s, Mission packages were put together, this included step by step programs that shared the successful actions in a formulaic system to ensure a booming and prosperous mission. Of course this was not based on anything any successful mission holder had ever actually done. The most successful mission holders were declared!
    The exact materials needed to get a mission started and up to and through the make-break point was determined and prepackaged to ensure success. (by SMI) It included Hat packs and invoices and books enough to fill a storefront and clay and lots of photos of LRH and some meters, etc.

    SMI made starting a mission idiot proof. Then they sold it to idiots! I really don’t mean to disrespect anyone here, but basically they (SMI) regged anyone they could who had 35 to 45 thousand dollars to purchase the starter package and it came with the promise that all you had to do is follow the step by step program to success.
    There are still a few missions that don’t lose money. Most have to be funded by either the mission holder or the field Scientologists around them that feel guilty about not being on staff. IG Network bulletin 34 came out about 10 years ago. It has a program step to get every misssion Class 6 auditors. Every mission had to send trainees to Flag or a SH for the BC. IT was huge. I think most missions sent at least one trainee and I don’t know if any got a Class 6 back. Still today there are very few highly trained auditors in the mission network. The only Class 8 in the mission network in EUS I can think of is Carter Manier. I’m sure there must be at least a couple others, but can’t think of any……

    On this second comment, why is it so hard to make auditors now when they were so common back then?

  33. I am very glad you have this blog, and that Scientologists are responding and joining and looking to do something about the tyrant (DM).

    I see that there is mistrust and dislike of Anonymous. I have been protesting with them for 20 months, and feel the need to point some things out.

    When Susan Talbot came out to Los Angeles to try to see her daughter in the Sea Org, Mandy Kember, there was not one single Scientologist who gave a damn that she was denied contact with her daughter for 11 years.

    The anons did, and they turned up to support her. They still do, in fact, in Manchester UK, near where she lives, and elsewhere around the world.

    What do you guys think about this? Did Susan “pull it in?” Do you assume that she must have done something wrong, and that there must be a good reason why she isn’t allowed to see her daughter?

    The Anons and others who came to support her (including ex OT7 Tori) just saw a mother who loves her daughter, and wants to reconnect with her. They don’t believe in whatever the heck this SP nonsense is. Whether that nonsense came from LRH or DM, the fact is IT’S WRONG. Susan is a mother, not an SP.

    So, my question to you is, there is a lot of talk about what to do about the tyrant. But what are you going to do about disconnection, the RPF, fair game, breaking up families, etc etc etc.

    If you think you can do a better job about these things than Anonymous, then we are all on the same page. If not, then I think Anonymous will continue this fight without you.

    • Susan/Glibby,

      My 2 cents here: anonymous has every right to exist and has done a lot to fight the abuses in the C.of S.

      I am convinced that without anonymous we would not have gotten to the point of having blogs like this one.

      Anonymous has its means and ways that sometimes are different than ours, yet I personally respect that group and I actually think that although there are differences, anonymous stands like we do for a very important target: get the abuses ended in the C.of S. be it financial abuses, fraud, splitting families, etc.

      Even if sometimes are “funny” in their ways, the people of anonymous have done a lot to get the truth rundown started. Having read wwp I can say that although they may have their sometimes (to me) strange ways, the great majority of them is moved by a genuine desire to help and do something for other people who are in distress.


  34. I will not have anything to do with Anon, because I have noticed that many of them, (evidence on line) are completely against the tech, never involved in the church, so didnt have the experience to even be seriously considered in court. Meantime, some x-CIA guy is advising them on their attacks. (Once CIA always CIA). That is not to hurt the feelings of many of the honest Anon’s. It seems the honest ones dont wear a mask, many times. After 30+ years in, and meeting some pretty bad eggs in the church, what if one of those person’s are behind the mask? I mean one of the ones that were forcing abortions, taking away civil & legal rights, treating people horribly…delibrately trying to cave them in. I fought for years, when something unjust happened, I would write it up. Or telling others after hearing their story, write it up. A lot of good that did. I was hoping to make changes in the group. Like following even basic employement laws, and if someone wants to leave, they have every right to leave staff. It should be swift. As anyone knows someone that doesnt want to be on a job, will not do a good job. Continuing to deliver the tech works best. I will miss my oldest though. She’s never going to understand why I resigned.

  35. o, PS, the CIA evidence is right on You Tube.

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