Noise

There has been a lot of hoopla of late from the far left of the Scientology spectrum. What with the news from the Inquiry of Oz and the rumored class action suit concerning IAS and Superpower refunds. As per usual these cats are acting like their soul mate Miscavige. Come out with hats and whips blazing, diverting attention and energy with efforts that in the end will have miniscule, if not negative, effects.

Inquiry of Oz.  If Senator Xenophon’s speech is the template for the proposed Inquiry, the hate and falsehood within it will sink it out of sight ultimately.  The snide references to “so called religion” and attacks on the efficacy of the tech are built in mannas for Miscavige.  He can position the entire matter as an over zealous attack upon a recognized religion.  And he’ll use the nature of the attack to raise many tens of millions more in IAS donations. The ass clowns have already declared victory with as much conviction and certainty as DM proclaims Scientology has attained “explosive” expansion. The perfect GPM.  It is a shame Xenophon didn’t go in with a cooler head as certainly there are abuses in DM’s kingdom that would be prosecutable if approached with rationality. Some might argue that Xenophon can reframe it and try again.  He can try, but as the proverb goes, “the toothpaste is out of the tube”, and his opening speech will forever be used against him to characterize whatever Inquiry ensues.  I have tried to warn people from the dark side that their penchant for hype and overkill dooms otherwise potentially fruitful avenues for reform. But they listen to rational counsel about as closely as DM does.

Class Action suit.  Solicitation is now in progress for a proposed Class Action lawsuit that will allegedly reap refunds for IAS and Superpower building donations.  Bad strategy. A number of people have obtained refunds – and others are in progress – to obtain refunds of payments to church affiliated no-exchange operations.  By word of mouth more and more people began to seek their own refunds. Then a couple of far left spectrum lawyers caught wind of the easy money and decided they’d cash in by monopolizing the action. Dumb move. Every class action suit brought against the Church in the past was similarly hatched by gold digging shysters, and they went the way of the dinosaur. It is just plain stupid strategy to put all one’s eggs in one basket – particularly against such a well-heeled, well-oiled litigation machine as the church.  Prediction, either the lawyers will destroy everybody’s chances for refunds by having their heads handed to them by a judicial precedent prohibiting such refunds, or at best those who sign up with them will wind up getting a small fraction of their refunds in a settlement maybe five or ten years down the road.

Now there is an outside chance one or both of the above hype du jours will take some of this into consideration and significantly change course.

Excuse me. I gotta put my helmet on. Every time I express an opinion critical of the critical ones, they start throwing rotten vegetables and fruit with as much ferocity as Miscavige used to punch on Rinder for counseling a bit of reason.  Like I keep saying, its a match made in heaven.

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210 responses to “Noise

  1. Well said Marty. I think it is ill advised to try to charge in there and demand money in droves. It will only go to prove the other sides point. But I do have to agree with Senator Xenophon in his anger. Yes it will cloud the real issue, but I think to say that Scientology is a “recognized religion” in Australia or even here in America is stretching it. Public opinion has pretty much showed that most people don’t believe it is a real religion because of the way it is being run, technically it isn’t. It is a business. The religious aspect of it is buried deep under the profit margin for DM. I think that DM and his cronies are going to find that more and more officials are going to come out like this Senator Xenophon and mad as hell too. And that is when the shit is really going to hit the fan.

    • “Mad as hell” are the operative words here. If they don’t get “rational” as hell it will simply build and perpetuate the GPM.

      • I agree that they should be rational, but isn’t the appropriate emotion to atrocities and injustice anger? It is hard to stay calm when there are children involved. As a parent I can attest that when I see kids being taken advantage of or abused in any way I lose my cool as well. I don’t think being angry in his case is irrational. It’s not like LRH didn’t blow his top when things weren’t right. Just listen to Standard Tech Defined again and see how LRH dealt with out-tech among the Class VIII’s.

      • martyrathbun09

        Yeah, but don’t get yourself stuck in the tone level. It will make your life miserable, create expensive chronic somatics, and make your level of truthfulness suspect.

    • Really X-RPFer I don’t dig your point.

      First who gives a damn whether a public opinion poll says Scientology is a religion or not!

      Anyone who reads a Scientology book can see it is a religion!

      Freedom of Religion is guaranteed by the Bill of Rights!

      The Bill of Rights protects individuals from tyranny of the majority!

      Ergo, I view supporting any effort to outlaw Scientology or any other religion as a Jack booted step back towards Fascism!

      This is what Xenophon represents!

      I suggest you read up on the previous inquisition.

      http://www.freezone.org/timetrack/data/Hidden_Story/index.htm

      Also its obvious the legal sharks see blood in the water on this IAS Class Action,but the fact is anyone who donated to the IAS was informed that these donations were non-refundable and have already received tax exemption under 501 c (iii)!

      The irony here is that if they do succeed in settling the plaintives could end up owing taxes on the full amount they donated!

      It will be a Pyrrhic “Victory”, at best!

      Even if they do “win”!

      Not to mention dealing with the Church’s formidable legal department.

      Ask Michael Flynn.

  2. I got an MU on ass clown, not ozzie slang, but I had a good laugh when this came up:

    assclown : denfinition – One, who, through the fault of his parents conception, is a skid mark in society’s collective underwear.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=assclown

    The Prime Minister has stated that an inquery, if done, will be taken in a measured way, mentioning he had concerns himself. Perhaps some hope from the house keeper that is incharge of toothpaste operations.
    To be continued…

  3. How would you recommend we get our money back, then?

  4. On the last article here I pointed out that there are exact policies and points where DM is vulnerable legally. While that is perfectly true, and he may very well go down on these points, it is also true what Marty has astutely pointed out: GPMs aflame aren’t gonna fly.

    Scientology IS a recognized religion, present PR notwithstanding. Just like Islam is a recognized religion, psycho ‘extremists’ notwithstanding.

    My actions presently are to forward the truth of Scientology as written and spoken by LRH on whatever lines I can find that will forward that message.

    If I am ever called to be a witness in any legal action, that is my message too. I will never testify hostiley in the press, or in any court against Scientology. I will never threaten to sue, embarass or attack Scientology and I never have. I have no interest in a refund of some ‘dono’ but in handling the corruption of LRH policy that calls for these no-exchange fund raisings in the first place.

    It’s a question of the correct estimation of effort and REASON/ETHICS prevailing here. It will, so I’m not rushing to huzzahs over the GPM dramo of some politician who is only feeding the troll that DM is being.

    Marty’s nailed this. It’s easily recognizable because it is reason and that’s cutting close to basic truth.

  5. Everyone has there own reality. Some people will never be able to make sense of what you have written, not emotionally nor intellectually. I say let them go on their path and learn. These are folks who play the one side of it hard and now are slammed onto the other.

    Perhaps ultimately, we all as some form of consciousness need these types of things to keep us interested in expanding our experience and knowledge.

    Yes in the short term, it certainly is not the most direct path to freedom…

    But the game….well that is the thing….

    Too esoteric thoughts? 🙂

    • You’ve got to love the passion of million dollar IAS contributors, turning 180 degrees and suing. Me….I still maintain that my lifetime HASI membership is in force…

      • Thought provoking

        Oh my, too funny! I’d forgotten I had one. I look at it all as a learning experience…thetans are tough and this has been a scratch compared to the other battles I’ve been in. I agree, this class action thing is just a distraction, negative PR will be the result. as much as we try Scientology will get a bruise if we proceed in that direction. So, for now, I will add this in my box of experience and do what LRH says….flourish and prosper. I’m sure I’ll find a way to get it all back, one way or another.

    • Dave Adams,
      Soooooo true are your words. It recalls the idea those who are relatively unaberrated and with a good forward look are few.

      p.s. I too consider myself still in HASI. The lifetime membership isn’t up yet.

    • Thanks, Jim Logan. Now THAT’s Scientology!!

      • Jim, that ack was intended for your
        comm a bit above here, regarding
        REASON/ETHICS prevailing.

        Thank you very much for that. That kind
        of wisdom give me real hope.

  6. It’s okay Marty. Spleen venting is the order of the day in the wild wild web. Sadly, its a bit of slum and the natives get restless.

    But there is a storm coming and I think it will sweep clean the abuses, and when the sun returns it will bring a new dawn.

    Thank you for keeping a dream alive.

  7. Barry Van Sickle

    I represent one person for whom I am seeking a refund from IAS. I expect that others may join the fray. The demand letter to IAS refers to the potential of a multi-party suit. It may evolve into a class action but I doubt it.
    There is no easy money here and no monoploy. Even if it becomes a class, people can opt out.
    More importantly, this is not a ‘strategy”. This is about people who “donated” money under false representations and coercion. If they chose to use the legal system to ty to get the money back, that is their choice and their right.
    I read your posts ‘religiously”. I thought you were “pro-choice” on such things.

    • Barry,
      I am pro-choice. I was simply commenting on a strategy I believe has been proven a loser time and again – and noting that it could wind up denying a lot of people justice who might otherwise obtain it through a more carefully thought out strategy. Read Sun Tzu, the Art of War. While the old man recommended it – it is too nuanced for DM to understand and apply. He can only apply a perverted version of Clausewitz On War. Cheers.
      Marty

    • Barry,
      I hope I’m forgiven for interpretation but the strategy point being made is key. The way to success is not with vengeance, not with a tit for a tat, or in some other form, an eye for an eye.

      Justice can all too often be the above, the balancing of ‘he did this to me, I get to do this to him’.

      The winning strategy in all this will be above such things and attain to a higher justice. That of fair and equitable treatment for decent human beings of whatever stripe or religious view.

      The point I’m interested in is differentiating the factual abuse of people by abuse of the subject under the direct control and direction of a specific person, David Miscavige. I dare say Marty has expressed his willingness to assume any of various points of view and grants free choice and determinism freely.

      It’s a question of right target, and righteous purpose.

  8. Hi Marty,

    First, I love ya. Honestly, no sarcasm involved. I support what you’re doing. Even if I don’t believe what you believe, I believe in your right to believe it.

    I’ll sit and think some more about your criticisms of the Xenophon speech. I don’t want to disagree out of hand. Perhaps it depends upon the audience whether Xenophon’s comments sound like hate. I can see how they might seem to cut across your own work of trying to build an understanding among current scientologists that scientology and the CoS are not the same thing.

    Xenophon’s audience was not current scientologists. In the context of the abuses he detailed, to an ordinary member of the public, I suspect that they’d be asking themselves the very question how a genuine religion could systematically behave like that.

    That said, I don’t follow who you’re talking about when you write “I have tried to warn people from the dark side that their penchant for hype and overkill dooms otherwise potentially fruitful avenues for reform. But they listen to rational counsel about as closely as DM does.”

    Am I “from the dark side”? Is Nick Xenophon? Has Nick failed to listen to your rational counsel? Or were you referring to other persons altogether unrelated to Nick Xenophon? Perhaps you could clarify that for us.

    Would you concede that perhaps “from the dark side” is hyperbolic? Or even “hype and overkill”?

    • Heather,
      I love you too – no joke. Please read what I wrote to Jeff in this comments thread. I am not naming names about the dark side folk. You are in a far better position to identify them than I. They are the folk that consider me more a threat to their ends than Miscavige will ever be. They consider me a threat for what I write and speak publicly about – saving the philosophy from the organization, and making it safe to study and practice Scientology in a sane, helping fashion. My warnings to the dark side are found in my daily postings and hours of video media interviews. Are you from the dark side? I’m not sure. Some of the hateful things being done to me are being perpetrated by those you claim to have some level of influence over. Yet, they continue unabated. I am not complaining, I am stating fact. I can – and I am sure will – handle a lot more than is being hurled by both sides of the spectrum at the moment. Is the Dark side hyperbole? I don’t believe so – I believe it is an understatement.
      Marty

      • A clarification, Marty. I do not recall claiming having any influence over anyone, and particularly not over anons. I regret if hateful things continue to happen to you. I recall the early telephone call from an Anon, but I’m not aware of that behaviour continuing and, if it did, there’s nothing I could do about it beyond express my opinion.

        Even moderators on Anon forums tread carefully and do not lightly censor content because free speech is a high value on those forums. Criticism of you, both warranted and unwarranted is expressed (as is support, though not in equal measure). Frankly, there’s nothing much I can do about it except add my voice, which I do.

      • martyrathbun09

        All right. Then why is there a double standard for me?

  9. Class VIII OT VII

    Spot on, Marty, especially your first two paragraphs. May be a failure to use the Data Series, or an inability to step out of the A=A=A that goes on both within and without the CoS, but whatever it is, it is, as you’ve rightly pointed out, a classic GPM which has become a “games condition”, both sides perpetuating their own Rightness.

    Thanks for your insight and perspectives.

  10. Just got to say Marty, not only do you speak sooth, you do so brilliantly — one hell of an article.

  11. Marty, as you know I respect your opinions and consider you a friend, so I hope you will forgive my speaking my mind here.

    As you know, I have been speaking out against Scientology abuses for several years now. I have given a lot of press, radio and TV interviews, most recently as a part of the St. Pete Times expose. I have many friends who have spoken out, including yourself, Amy, Steve Hall and others. Some of these people still consider themselves Scientologists, some do not. Personally, I do not consider myself a Scientologist. That does not mean I think it is all bad. I respect anyone who still wants to practice Scientology. My friends are my friends, whether they consider themselves Scientologists or not, it makes no difference to me.

    I don’t know about anyone else, but for myself, while in the Church I had my fill of intolerance and vilifying those who disagree. I try to be tolerant.

    I do not think that it is either right or productive to try to create divisions between those who consider themselves Ex-Scientologists and those who consider themselves Independent Scientologists. For the most part, we are after the same thing – to stop the abuses, fraud and criminality in the current Church of Scientology management. There are a lot of us working to achieve that. We don’t all agree about every aspect of Scientology tech. Well, so be it – we don’t all have to think the same way, thank god.

    It pains me to hear talk about the “far left of Scientology,” about “haters,” about “cats acting like their soul mate Miscavige.” Especially when this is referring to people like Kevin Mackey, Carmel Underwood, Paul Schofield, Anna and Dean Detheridge, and others bravely exposing organized Scientology in Australia.

    I think such terms create artificial divisions where none need to exist. My friends are my friends. I do not need to be told what “group” they belong to or what to think about that group.

    With respect,

    Jeff Hawkins

    • Jeff,
      First let me say. If I had the power to appoint a Inquisitor to sort this whole mess out, of all the people on earth, you would be on the short list. Because I know your depth of wisdom and your level of equanimity. I am NOT making a distinction between “ex-Scientologists” and “Independent Scientologists.” Please read my words carefully. That is someone else’s interpretation. I have never used those words and that is NOT what I mean. I have not even criticized Kevin, Carmel, Paul, Anna and Dean. Please read what I have written. I am lending advice that is based upon 22 years of hard learned experience. I have lent effort to a number of 3rd dynamic justice actions in the past nine months that have been wasted, severely delayed, and possibly outright sabotaged by “the far left of the Scientology spectrum”. At the end of the day, if they don’t clean up their act – and show some tolerance – like your words “I respect anyone who still wants to practice Scientology” – I may end up mobilizing a defense to the assault myself. After all, I can’t trust Miscavige to protect the philosophy because that does not align with his purpose.
      Marty

      • Marty, I’ll take you at your word that you were not impugning Kevin, Carmel and the others speaking out in Oz. But then, I’m left with a bit of a mystery as to who these dark side folk are. I keep up with events and know most of the major players, at least I thought I did. But I don’t know who you are referring to here. I’m being honest with you here – I don’t know who you are referring to.

      • martyrathbun09

        Jeff,
        On who the dark side folks are, “I don’t know who you are referring to here”; perhaps that has something to do with their acting in anonymity.
        Marty

      • Marty – you don’t have to answer if you don’t want. Maybe I’m the only one who doesn’t get who you are talking about and everyone else gets it. If that’s the case, sorry for my obtuseness. But I do not get who you consider the bad guys are in the OZ inquiry drama, and what exactly they did. I would like to know, really. I am not trying to be difficult.

      • martyrathbun09

        Fishdaddy, now I am failing to get what you don’t get. They are hiding their identities. And because people who hide their identities to play the merry prankster don’t have a clue how to carry anything off of significance along justice lines to a real conclusion (because among other reasons it is not their purpose) they can screw up an otherwise great opportunity to get justice. I am studying evidence over the next couple days. In the meantime, everything I’ve read to date makes me regret I had not expressed myself more emphatically.

      • Hi Marty, The letters from people that the senator tabled at parliament in oz have publicly come out and spoken.( I guess you probably know that by now though).

      • Who is hiding their identities? The Australian seven? A few of their identities were redacted from the parliamentary evidence, but they have been provided to the police. Most of their names have been made public. Let’s see if the criminal organization has a field day attacking them to “shudder them into silence.”

        Or are you talking about the nebulous people who are committing “hateful acts” against you? Your statements aren’t very specific.

  12. Very well presented case Marty. Those types of attacks will only serve to swell the IAS coffers. This needs to stay a guerilla operation, until far more troops are mustered, and only then should any attempt be made at ‘conventional warfare’.

  13. “As per usual these cats are acting like their soul mate Miscavige”

    “I have tried to warn people from the dark side that their penchant for hype and overkill dooms otherwise potentially fruitful avenues for reform”

    And referring to these people as soul mates of Miscavige is not hyperbole?

    A certain amount of such language is to be expected in a war of words, people need it.

    The trick is, if you really want to do the rational thing, is to look past it. Perhaps point it out in order to prevent others being blindsided by it, but if you use similar language in the process it becomes a bit… self-defeating.

    The more you use such language, the further you will distance yourself from a group that may be capable of bringing down the church, that has power in their experiences and willingness to relate them. And you may end up so far away that in the end you will have no say in whether the CoS is reformed, or goes down in flames.

    Rationality has no value in itself and no one would bother fighting for it unless they see it as aligning with their interests. In a war, it is rational to do what it takes to win. If you are fighting a war on irrationality itself, it will be a very lonely struggle, and your own human nature will be your worst enemy.

    • You wrote: “The more you use such language, the further you will distance yourself from a group that may be capable of bringing down the church, that has power in their experiences and willingness to relate them.” One would have to be smoking a tremendous amount of weed to believe that.

      • I assumed you were attacking all those people who spoke with Xenophon, reading your other comments that may not have been the case. But you didn’t really specify so how can you blame me.

        The great middle path, if such a thing even exists, I don’t think you’re walking it with this post, even if it’s mostly due to misunderstandings regarding your real intentions. Even from people who do normally take a balanced view.

        It was days since I had any good pot around.

      • Perhaps you and you alone know best, Marty. But I’m with those who consider it hypocritical of you to be so nasty toward others at the very time you call them out for being “haters”.

        One of the problems with your post is that you give some unnamed and undefined set of people a spray (plus Nick Xenophon – you confuse his righteous anger with hatred), then when people take issue with your attacks, you keep telling people to read your words, as if your very ambiguity is a virtue.

        I think you are capable of being better than that.

      • martyrathbun09

        I touched on your responsibility in the reprehensible attacks on me – all of which are acts, and not merely words – you go silent on that and go, once again, critical on me. Any number of people who frequent this board can tell you what that might indicate. Makes me wonder about your original opening line.

      • Who are you talking to here?

      • martyrathbun09

        Hhhmm. Heather, I touch on your potential responsibility for reprehensible acts – not criticisms, acts – against me. You ignore that, and step up the vitriol. Makes me wonder about the sincerity of the opening line of your first comment today.

      • Hi Marty, I certainly did not “go silent” about attacks on you. I directly addressed the only one that came to mind that seemed to fit your vague description.

        What are you talking about? The phone call from an Anon? Was I somehow potentially responsible for that? How so? I don’t understand.

        I have criticised your post and your responses, Marty. I have not attacked you yourself. I see the two as being quite different. Rather, I expressly made it clear that I thought you were better than your words indicated.

        We all mess up. I think you’ve messed up with how you’ve worded this post. To me, it reads as both angry and nasty.

        That doesn’t mean I judge you, the person, as being somehow irreparably angry and nasty.

        I don’t see criticism as necessarily independent of love. Any love that is independent of truth is not real love. (And truth that is independent of love is an obscenity.) If I didn’t care, I’d not bother to post here. But, I take my heart in my mouth here sometimes not knowing with what tone you’re going to respond. If you’re going to misinterpret the honest reflection of disagreement or critique as hatred or an attack, then we shall need to maintain a shallow acquaintance, and one that cannot be grounded in real love. Because love wants the best for the other person. And the best requires both truth and love.

        eg. You inferred that I might be “from the dark side”. That’s a pretty horrible thing to suggest. I could go off in a huff because you said something hurtful to me. Or I can try to understand why you would think such a thing and whether there is any justification for the comment.

        Was it just because I called you out on your nasty tone? Or is that because I’m somehow responsible for the thousands of people who call themselves Anonymous and are engaged in Chanology.

        Now, feel free to continue this discussion here or by email if to do so would entail disclosing things I have told you privately. I should say, that the responses are now appearing for me at the bottom of the page, so I can’t tell to what you are responding unless you make that clear.

      • martyrathbun09

        Heather,
        I have always considered you a voice of reason. I realize the herd of cats can’t be controlled. I don’t mind them exercising their right to speech – hell, their written and graphic attacks on me indicate they consider Miscavige a freaking saint by comparison. But, I have been working on grown up, potentially real justice programs – and to the extent the felines get wind of it they inevitably foul it up. And of late they’ve gone beyond merely denigrating me with words. And that can cause a whole new distraction that affects real effective actions. Unfortunately, since you so vehemently pounce on me in their defense, I can’t share any more particulars. I have shared at least two examples in the past, and as much as I can say at the moment is that two others have since been effected. Bottom line is I mentioned “the far left spectrum” which I have defined in Middle Path Redux. I never mentioned you, the herd, nor any other group or individual. But, look who is reacting. We can continue to communicate privately if you wish.
        Marty

      • Thanks for that comment, Marty. I’m genuinely sorry that you’ve suffered attacks upon you. If there is anything I can do either to stop that abuse or to help bring the perpetrator(s) to justice (I can’t think what), I will happily do so. Just ask.

        I guess the difficulty I have is that I can’t identify the “far left” as you defined them in that previous post, the ones who want to destroy all writings of LRH, etc, aside from a handful of posters on wwp. Those same posters have been disagreed with by others. I don’t see them as influential at all.

        Yet, your post “Noise” somehow conflates that extreme fringe with Senator Xenophon and then again with Barry Van Sickle and Graham Berry. Barry, in particular, doesn’t sit at the book-burning extreme. I know that Senator Xenophon does not. He expressly stated that there is no limitation on what a person believes. I do not see him supporting any “ban” on Scientology. I certainly would not support a ban on the religion.

        Fishdaddy expressed it well when he asked who it is you are talking about.

        Through all this debate, I do NOT want to end up on the other side of an “us” and “them” divide. It is not necessary that we be opposed to each other. We can disagree, yet respect each other and support each other and want the best for each other. I know you are capable of that and I appreciate that quality in you when I see it.

  14. Great points Marty. Spoken like “Sitting Bull” in the great middle path.

    It is a shame that DM has created so much antagonism and then the Philosophy gets bashed about by his enemies that cannot differentiate.

    But this is what an SP does. He creates chaos and entheta and uses insane reasons for doing things.

    DM is probably as happy as he is able to be right now.

  15. Marty….with all due respect, the path of one taking the middle way would not contribute to divisiveness that is bound to obtain in the sorting out of this reformation and purging. Allow the pendulum to swing freely the other way as part of the process.

    • Mickey, thanks. Sitting on a mountain, lotus style, and humming does not achieve the aims of Buddha.

      • Sitting and humming is not what Buddah “did” strictly. Again, merely part of the process, for the legacy left by the lessons taught in this middle-path are of what I allude to in my comments here.

        Love and compassion for ALL (with no exceptions) sentient beings. Which is not to say one should “take it”, being abused etc. …..rather one’s approach, attitude, state of mind and such, need not be combative, vitriolic and attack-back driven for the result desired (reformation, end of the abuses, etc.) to still be obtained.

        I think Jeff Hawkins’ post says in a much more eloquent and cogent way what I mean. Thanks Jeff!

  16. Nic Xenophon is calling for a full inquiry into the abuses of Scientology – at no time has he attacked anybody’s beliefs.

    In my own dealings with him, he has repeatedly expressed this to me and the others involved and he stated as much in his speech, if you read it carefully.

    I think you’ll find his passion for causes comes through as anger at times, but he is a very sincere man who I personally admired for his courage long before I met him recently.

    The results of his speech can be seen in the amount of media that has been gotten around the planet – unfortunately the term Miscavology just doesn’t communicate as well and so no-one has been using it. 🙂

    But, write him and tell him YOUR concerns and YOUR tales of abuse. That’s what is needed here.

    Being a computer dinosaur means I don’t know how to put links up here but I’m sure that Google can help you.

    Right now, there is a lot of insanity being generated around this here in Oz but there’s also a chance to get the real story told IF there’s a lot of sane input – so please do your bit. And I don’t just mean you personally Marty, but anyone who cares that the image of a power-crazed cult as opposed to their belief of scientology is being promoted planet-wide right now should be setting the record straight themselves – use the opportunity, folks.

    I assure you, you will regret if it you don’t.

    Because this is a tidal wave that those of us who started it never thought would swell so quickly and so huge.

    • Scooter. Thanks. Just so you know, when I note outpoints in the statements – I am not referring to you. Your’s has been corroborated by an old friend of yours who has a lot of credibility in my book.

  17. You conveniently dismiss the abuses but talk plenty of the money — just like David Miscavige would do.

    See a pattern there?

  18. Senator Xenophon made it quite clear that he was demanding an senate inquiry in response to the BEHAVIOUR of the CoS, NOT their beliefs. Furthermore, his address has prompted the NSW state police to seriously consider and investigate the claims of ex-members – which I thought would be something, you of all people would be in favor of.

    Many ex-members contacted him, and as a rather principled politician (and he is – as an avid parliament watcher I’m in no doubt about this) – he’s taken up the concerns of his constituents. This is how democracy works, and I for one am proud to say we have people like Xenophon in our parliament who really do give a crap about the people they represent.

    We don’t have the same kind of freedom of speech protection that you enjoy in the United States, so parliamentary privilege is often the only way these types of grievances can be aired without it ending in a defamation suit (regardless of whether something is true or not). Considering the litigious nature of the CoS it’s rather doubtful that such grievances could be publicly aired if not for parliamentarians like Xenophon.

    To be honest, I’m surprised at your post. While many others’ have been firmly planted in the anti-Marty camp, I’ve preferred to give you the benefit of the doubt. Now I’m seriously questioning whether I should continue to do so.

    • Read the whole thread of comments. A number of my replies address your concern. Help is a very charged button. Some even attack sincere offers of help.

      • Well at the time I wrote that only 2 comments had been put up. While I’m going back now and reading all the replies I do have to ask what exactly you mean by the “help button”, and what sincere offer of help you feel is being attacked? I do have some familiarity with this concept, but I’d like to have the relationship between this and the situation outlined above better explicated so that we can be quite clear what you’re positing here – preferably in non-Scientological language.

        Also, when questioned outside parliament subsequent to this, Xenophon has made it quite clear that putting these grievances to the parliament is part of his duty as a senator. Now for him to refrain from doing so, would seem to me to be an abandonment of his duty as a senator – and at odds with our democratic ideals.

        Is this really an issue with Xenophon or with the nature of Australian democracy? Are you expecting our democracy to cohere with a Scientological construction of reality – and if so, do you think this is reasonable?

        Also, he had to put forward a case FOR a senate inquiry – the advantage being that such a process is open and transparent and would allow ALL parties to put forward their cases in a way which the entire Australian community can scrutinize and consider.

        Considering these allegations and wider public concern DO exist and they’re not going to abate any time soon, it would seem to be an ideal course of action for all concerned.

        Now I respect the right of people to stay silent about real or perceived mistreatment and to not contribute to public debate or police investigations into these matter if they so decide – but are you really arguing against the right of those who do wish to pursue these avenues to do so? I still don’t understand what hate and revenge has to do with this, when by all accounts these complaints relate to SYSTEMIC problems within the CoS which still continue – making this a matter of continued public importance.

        I’d be quite interested in your response to the points I’ve outlined here, and/or your attitude towards democracy and the practice of Scientology within a democratic framework.

  19. Hey Marty!

    Do you believe in law and order?
    Do you believe a person or organisation should be held accountable for crimes commited?
    Do you believe that scientology is a part of the world?
    Do you believe the victims of scientology has a right to justice?
    Do you belive that scientology has earned the right to live outside the laws of other men?
    Do you believe that only David Miscaviage should be held accountable for any criminal behaviour in any of the layers of organised scientology?

    I admire you for the fact that you spoke out in the SP times, but you need to remember man, people out there are getting hurt by scientology every day. Those people have a right to justice.

  20. This data is publicised on his site.
    Feel free to offer support and detail any points that could help make the cycle smooth.
    He asked to be contacted.
    Its not about religion or belief, but of course that is the foundation for being there, but its about abuse taken place. Be level headed and honest.

    Senator Nick Xenophon
    Senator for South Australia
    Party: Independent

    Parliament Contact:
    Phone: (02) 6277 3552
    Fax: (02) 6277 5834

    Email: senator.xenophon@aph.gov.au

  21. I really find it odd that there is only one comment and one reply to this post…considering how much reaction this is getting on the various critic boards.
    Care to comment on that?

  22. Mark,

    I’m not sure I know what you mean by the “the far left of the Scientology spectrum”. There are obviously a diversity of opinions regarding Scientology based on differing experiences and viewpoints. Just because some people don’t agree with you doesn’t make them wrong. You have your way of doing things, others have their way. I believe that a number of different approaches are necessary to bring about the desired result.

    I listened to Senator Xenophon’s speech and I didn’t hear any falsehoods and any anger, if any, was fully justified in my opinion. Any organisation that abuses it’s members and manipulates them into handing over their life savings is a criminal organisation in my book. Please tell us what falsehoods were uttered.

    You must know as well as anyone that the CoS has no respect for the laws of the land or for the ‘human rights’ of it’s members. ‘Writing it up’ has no effect, the organisation is so corrupt that only the intervention of the authorities and the courts will put ethics in.

    When I claimed a refund of money in my account at St Hill, I was met with an almost total lack of cooperation. At first they promised that I would get my money within a few weeks, but thereafter refused to even speak to me. It was only the fact that I engaged a lawyer and prepared a case to go to court and then informed the media and my MP, that got a result in the end. It seems that only the threat of the most severe punishment or public embarrassment gets results. If you know of a better way to get a refund of my IAS ‘donations’, then I’d like to hear it, but as far as I can see, legal action is the only way.

    It’s unfortunate that it has come to this because many innocent people are going to get hurt. But what choice is there? The fact is, the ‘Church’ of Scientology is a tin-pot cult that no one would have any interest in if it weren’t for the hig-profile celebrity followers. The only way to stop the abuses is to make the truth known using all available channels and to take decisive action.

    I haven’t heard anyone proclaiming victory, most realise that it will take a lot more effort yet to bring the CoS to account. Characterising people of good intentions as ‘ass clowns’ betrays your contempt for people who don’t do things the way you think they should. I have respect for what you have achieved in the last year or so and support you in this, but you aren’t always right.

    You will probably characterise me as a ‘critical one’ or even a ‘hater’, but I won’t be throwing any rotten fruit at you. Can you say the same?

    • Axiom 142:
      You wrote: “I’m not sure I know what you mean by the “the far left of the Scientology spectrum”. Read the Great Middle Path Redux, a post of mine from a few days ago.
      You wrote: “I listened to Senator Xenophon’s speech and I didn’t hear any falsehoods and any anger, if any, was fully justified in my opinion.” I highly, and quite seriously, suggest that you read Hubbard’s Data Series. It really can help a person more closely perceive identities, similarities and differences.
      You wrote: “It was only the fact that I engaged a lawyer and prepared a case to go to court and then informed the media and my MP, that got a result in the end. It seems that only the threat of the most severe punishment or public embarrassment gets results.”
      Agreed – Like Malcolm X said: “power only listens to power.” But, your success supports the contention I made. I am not dissuading people from taking what measures they need to in order to obtain justice, I am noting that these ill-prepared broadsides can wind up denying justice to people like you who took matters into his own hands and obtained a measure of it.
      You wrote: “The fact is, the ‘Church’ of Scientology is a tin-pot cult that no one would have any interest in if it weren’t for the hig-profile celebrity followers.”
      Perhaps this indicates why you can’t see the outpoints and situations I am pointing out. In either event, I find Cruises antics the first barrier to overcome in introducing a new person to the subject. So much for celebrities.

      • Mark,

        You wrote: “Perhaps this indicates why you can’t see the outpoints and situations I am pointing out.”

        Don’t you think that attitude is rather condescending? Reminds me of why I left the CoS. Nothing massages the ego quite like knowing The Truth. Trouble is, this attitude can render you blind to the truth. (Say not, ‘I have found the truth,’ but rather, ‘I have found a truth.’ – Kahlil Gibran, On Self-Knowledge)

        I will look at what you suggested and re-evaluate my position. Are you prepared to do the same with what I and others have written? Or will you simply ignore these comments, secure in the knowledge that you are right?

      • martyrathbun09

        I soak in everything like a sponge and process it very thoroughly. thanks.

  23. Marty, where do you see the hate and falsehood in Senator Xenophon’s speech? Hate is a subjective perception of course, but falsehood isn’t. His sources of information were (a. the SP Times series of articles, in which you figured prominently; (b. the recent French conviction for criminal fraud; and (c. several letters he received from former members, which he didn’t claim were totally factual but grounds for investigation. So where’s the falsehood?

    The church’s response was to claim that “Senator Xenophon is obviously being pressured by disgruntled former members who use hate speech and distorted accounts of their experiences in the Church. They are about as reliable as former spouses are when talking about their ex-partner.”

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,26366177-421,00.html

    Like, say, the former spouses of Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun? LOLOL!

    • Eldon, I gave a couple examples in my post. I am not going to detail it; as I no longer do legal defense research for DM’s organization. As far as falsehoods go, let me make another prediction: Their lead witness – Aron something? – is going to be filleted. I don’t even know the guy – yet, on its face, his story doesn’t add up. Again, I am not going to do their research for them.

      • The guy’s name is Aaron Saxton. To see an interview with him and others who were quoted, go to this set of videos. His part starts in the fourth one down, a little over halfway through, and continues into the next one.
        http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?p=3877&cpage=1#comment-2559

        There’s a brief quote from LRH at the end of the fourth video.

      • I just listened to Aarons interviews…starts with complaining about not being allowed to masturbate, rambles though the injustice of joining a religious order and then being expected to be tough and dedicated, and seems to conclude with a discourse on his own dark intentions, acquiensence to others faulty examples and a complete lack of responsibility for his own condition.

        Ultimately it is that final bit, responsibility for ones own conditions, and then those around you that are the path to happiness and success. Blame shame and regret go the other way.

      • martyrathbun09

        Dave, pretty pathetic. I couldn’t listen beyond segment 3 as the accumulating generalities and falsehoods were literally dispersing.

      • I think it was me that suggested Lrh knew what he was doing. This is the only answer that makes sense at all. I think it was a lesson he wanted to teach us, so that we really take the responsibilty for the tech.He said in a Journal that he not always will be here and the Tech is a gift to us and we have to look ourselves for to apply it rightly. Very simple story that makes lots of sense !!!
        Marty,
        I liked above post very much. Continue to write about what all happened in the past. There are still lots of things we don’t know about. Why wasn’t the management telling all the truth. It wouldn’t have been a problem for us to know. In the contrary we could have helped better.

        Have a nice Day !

  24. I agree with the thrust here Marty, but hang on a second. If there isn’t such noisy investigations how are the facts going to get flushed out? The public are intelligent enough to recognise correct targets I believe. It is unavoidable that Senators blur the line between CofS and the subject, but actually if you look at what Xenophon said it’s hard to diasgree: “…there is the private face of an organisation that abuses its followers and viciously targets its critics, and seems largely driven by paranoia.

    “These victims of Scientology claim it is an abusive, manipulative, violent and criminal organisation,” said Senator Xenophon. PM Kevin Rudd hit just the right note with: “I share some of those concerns. Let us proceed carefully and look carefully at the material he has provided before we make a decision on further parliamentary action.” Let these victims have their say. It’s all part of the healing surely.

    • Panther, thanks for this. Noisy investigations are what DM’s OSA engages in and what are the results? Perhaps Rudd’s comment presages cooler heads, and intelligent investigation.

    • Xenophon himself called Scientology a criminal organization, and he was correct. The Cof$ was convicted of criminal fraud in France a few weeks ago, and ordered to pay close to a million bucks in fines and penalties.

      Two local events driving this are the stabbing deaths of two Scientologists by a schizophrenic family member, and the suicide of a soldier who had apparently suffered a psychotic break after spending $25,000 on auditing. Both happened in 2007.

      • martyrathbun09

        It would be a bloody shame if those affected were denied justice because Xenophon was misdirected into generalizing and thus affording the church a defense to it all.

      • Marty wrote: “It would be a bloody shame if those affected were denied justice because Xenophon was misdirected into generalizing and thus affording the church a defense to it all.”

        Yes it would. I get it. That’s the simplicity of it.

        What I understood form this post and through the noise is what I walk away with as the whole point. It really makes both “sides” right.

        Da capo (not for the sake of redundant redundancy but clarity;) : “It would be a bloody shame if those affected were denied justice because Xenophon was misdirected into generalizing and thus affording the church a defense to it all.”

  25. David Miscavige:

    Scientology handbook:
    A person who is always angry about something is stuck in anger. Such a person is not as bad off as somebody in subapathy, but he is still rather dangerous to have around since he will make trouble, and a person who is angry does not control things well. The communication characteristics of people at these various levels on the Tone Scale are quite fascinating. They say things and handle communication each in a distinct characteristic fashion for each level of the Tone Scale.

    Psyciatry:
    Habitual Anger: Anger can become a bad habit. Habitually angry people find themselves getting angry often, usually about small things that don’t bother others. They wake up grumpy. They go through the day looking for fights. They look for the worst in everything and everybody. They usually go to bed angry about something. They might even have angry dreams. Their angry thoughts set them up for more and more arguments. They can’t seem to quit being angry, even though they are unhappy. Habitually angry people gain predictibility. They always know what they feel. Life may be lousy but it is known, safe, and steady. However, they get trapped in their anger and it runs their lives. They can’t get close to the people they love because their anger keeps them away.

    • Right, and add to that an Angry man tells lies.

      • It’s kind of like different fighting styles, right?
        Knee Jerk vs. Strategy

        Knee jerk: angry and start throwing wild punches.

        Strategy: Like Tae Kwan Do, use the opponents energy for one’s one strength; when the opponent lunges on you, pull them in. Their motion will contribute & help you fling them right past you. Formidable!

      • martyrathbun09

        Bingo, yeah. I’ve been making the analogy to cage fighting vs martial arts. The former uses brute strength and the confines of an imprisonment. The latter does exactly as you note.

  26. I heartily concur with Marty — class action suits, shining the light on money won’t change a thing really. How many “real churches” can you count that are enormously wealthy. One practically owns a whole city — hint – in Utah.

    No — what I think will create real change is to create that real change FIRST within each of ourselves. Heal those dark parts of our soul/psyche that WANTS to see others suffer, that gets a real kick out of conflict, that loves gossip.

    If you don’t think that applies to you or me – then perhaps somewhere along the line you or I got enlightened and I know I haven’t.

    It’s daily work to not find myself eager to get the latest “news”, to pat myself on the back for being so smart to get out early … all that stuff.

    Just keep working on myself, extend my hand to others and not get caught up in the supposed promise and glory of REVENGE.

    To me — anything on the far right or far left is revenge. It might be called something else — like getting a class action refund but at it’s core – its revenge.

    We have to step beyond. Revenge cannot build a world of kindness and wisdom. Ever.

    WH

    • WH, thanks for sharing your wisdom as always. REVENGE is the word I was looking for. Now, JUSTICE is another thing entirely. Ironically, the fellows stuck on REVENGE are preventing those seeking JUSTICE from achieving it. That is what the burden of my discourse was meant to be.

  27. I’m not counting on you for justice Marty. You were a thug and enforcer for the crime cult for over a decade. And you still dwell in the fantasy world created by the cult’s deluded founder. Unlike you, Xenophon is educated, intelligent, eloquent, and very RATIONAL. You just concentrate on telling the stories of when you were the self-described “THE TERMINATOR” in crime cult. That’s where you can really make a difference.

    • You forgot to add that he is good looking too.

      • Marty,

        This comment is not intended as a presumptuous or heavy-handed chastisement, but rather as a friendly bit of coaching from a fellow scientologist (no TM).

        Although I am pretty much “nobody” in the world of Scientology and have would have no “altitude” over you, I believe it is still my place, according to the Code of a Scientologist, to offer this advice in the hopes of correcting what I perceive to be an outness that is factually getting in the road of your expressed desire to unite the community in a common effort to handle C of $ and DM.

        That outness is your severely out-of-ARC responses to some of the comment posters.

        In my observation, you are faced with a great many persons for whom your very presence (albeit via the web) constitutes a restimulator for the great ongoing 3rd Dynamic Engram that has been C of $ for last couple of decades, regardless of your current (I believe) good intentions and desire to clean up the mess.

        I ask you to wear your 3rd Dynamic auditor hat at all times when you are dealing with this community.

        No matter what the “PC” may say or do – remember always that per the Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation, you must always remain above tone 3.0 when handling such angry, hostile or antagonistic persons, if you wish to raise their tone and bring them out of the incident.

        It doesn’t matter whether the low-toned behavior is dramatization or an appropriate Present Time emotion for present time circumstances or events. Neither does it matter whether it is the result of misunderstandings or misconceptions about you (whatever the cause) nor whether it is because of legitimate grievances with you.

        Your light reply to such a low-toned attack as the above example is just exactly what is needed, in my opinion.

        Michael A. Hobson

      • martyrathbun09

        Mike,
        Thanks. First, I outlined my goals in response to Heather’s comment; so you might have decided I am aiming for something I am not. Second, I am not auditing you or anybody else on the blog. Third, even if I were, it would be a pretty squirrel and ineffective auditor who would carry on with the session while watching an intruder punch on his pc’s head. But, thanks for your view. It is valuable.
        Marty

  28. In many cases, the police do need to be called, there do need to be arrests, and there must be government intervention to end the abuse once and for all.

    People who have been harmed deserve to seek justice in their own ways, and to get it any way they can.

    You may not agree with their solutions, but you may not have been harmed in the same way, either.

    Labeling people, setting groups against each other, and dictating how a person should seek a redress of wrongs, are all old solutions from the Church of Scientology. Those solutions do not work.

    When so many people have been harmed in so many different ways, there is no way to control this, Marty. You have to let peoples’ karma play out.

    State your case, say your opinion, but denigrating people who are only seeking justice for themselves is not right.

    • Alanzo, take a walk. Then read my post again.
      This statement is just plain silly, and quite frankly, hypocritcal: “State your case, say your opinion, but denigrating people who are only seeking justice for themselves is not right.”

  29. To each his own. Godspeed.

  30. Hi Marty,
    I’m suprised at the viewpoint you have taken here. You refer to the senators
    ” snide” comments such as “so called religion”.

    Having among other matters evidence of the
    torture of someone, the hiding of info re murders, embezzlement etc its not suprising the Senator, who does not have the full understanding of the scientology philosophy, would use such a phrase. However, and to reinforce the point ” Scooter ” made, here are the last two sentences of his speech:-

    “Ultimately, this is not about religious freedom. In Australia there are no limits on what you can believe. But there are limits on how you can behave. It is called the law, and no-one is above it.”

    The Senator is actually putting in ethics, per the ethics gradients. He is forwarding his KRs
    up the right channels to the EO [ the police]
    who will probably call for a comm ev [ pass data to the courts]

    You made comments in what seems, if I got
    you right, a disparaging way re ” Noisy investigations.|” And perhaps you are right to disparage, I’m open to ideas on that. However
    this idea was written by the same person who authored the Data Series.

    • Terril, this reference to the “same guy who wrote the Data Series” indicates you just don’t quite get Scientology. Dude, you can find an LRH reference for any proposition you wish to advance – including ones that seem to directly contradict one another. You gotta read it in context and learn how to play the piano. It works quite well for someone solely concerned with helping another, and it works quite nefariously for someone trying to do another in. You certainly don’t get that I am offering advice. Oh, well.

  31. Here’s an interesting thought. The Old Man would be perhaps in his 20s now. Knowing him, I’m going to guess he’s the scion to a fortune.

    I got the picture very recently that this entire CoS evolution was pre-determined and that he’s going to ride in on his white horse one of these days soon and save the day. It would certainly appeal to his sense of the theatrical and love for creating effects. Big ones.

    Marty, you are very right about differentiating between revenge and justice. I have no interest in revenge whatsoever.

    And I can’t find much use for anger except to mock it up from time to time to get a point across (typically to get a 1.1 to come uptone enough to have a real communication.)

    It’s a low-toned game Scientology’s stuck in now.

    Ironically, the motivators came long ago with crazy things like beating up executives and making people run around a pole in the hot desert sun and destroying families, etc.

    Who couldn’t see what that sort of psychotic behavior would pull in?

    Or maybe that was the entire point; destroy Scientology by pretending to protect it.

    As someone noted above, those little Devilish Marcabians ….

    • Huckleberry, do you really believe that Hubbard has returned and planned the whole thing just so he can ride to the rescue?

      If so, I’ve got a reality check for you. NO ONE is coming to the rescue. Not now, not ever.

      The subject of Scientology has been thoroughly trashed as far as the general public is concerned. If you don’t believe that, go and speak to the public and ask them what they think of the subject and look at the surveys on religions where Scientology gets the lowest possible ratings. There can be no prospect of ‘saving’ Scientology, the most that can be hoped for is that the parts that work can be taken out and used in a new form – one untainted by the old associations.

      If Hubbard was able to do something he would have done it by now. Do you believe that he would let his precious ‘church’ go to hell in a hand basket? That he would let a monster like Miscavige cause so much havoc and ruin so many lives? You must have a very low opinion of the sort of person Hubbard was if you think he would do that.

      • martyrathbun09

        Axiom 142 wrote: “The subject of Scientology has been thoroughly trashed as far as the general public is concerned. If you don’t believe that, go and speak to the public and ask them what they think of the subject and look at the surveys on religions where Scientology gets the lowest possible ratings. There can be no prospect of ‘saving’ Scientology, the most that can be hoped for is that the parts that work can be taken out and used in a new form – one untainted by the old associations.” I agree with your first sentence. As to the second, that is what we are doing here – albeit not quite as limited as you would seem to think it has to be. We may not yet be “legion”, but it is getting to seem like we are just about everywhere.

      • Axiom,
        You know I talk to people every single day that haven’t even heard of Scientology. No, they aren’t deaf and blind. They are out of communication and don’t know what the heck it is.

        I’ve got non-Scientologist friends that have heard the stuff and know me and with that contradiction, put the trash in the trash.

        I’m afraid the Apacolypse of Scn is a myth, a PR myth, pushed now by you, and pushed by DM. THAT is the point.

        Sheesh, if you really believe this…well… I just dunno but that some people are sure bent on destruction.

      • Ax, a story for you. Soon after finding Scn, I had a PTS handling. Life had an annoying habit of crashing down on my head.

        The handling didn’t particularly go well and I couldn’t resolve anything.

        About ten minutes later, as I was walking along a street, the face of the last person I’d ever have suspected of being suppressive – it’s hard to see past some smiles – appeared in my head and, when I understood the truth – as-ised, as they say – fireworks went off.

        Now, this will sound like a metaphor to you, but the weird thing is that flourescent looking green electricity (of a sort) literally was flickering wildly above my head.

        I was fully exterior of my body. I went home and made a sandwich – as you do – sat on my couch and wondered how I could fit into such a small space as my apartment. I sat there for maybe hours with a huge smile and an uneaten sandwich on my lap.

        Now I’d done some good drugs in my time but this condition was off-the-charts compared to any of that. And it was controlled and stable and powerful and, above all, it was benevolent and it was playful.

        I felt infinite kindness with everyone and everything. Not because I thought that I had to or because of some kind of social agreement but just because that was my natural feeling.

        The next day the first person who saw me asked me what I’d done because I “looked ten years younger”. I went to a mirror and sure enough the entire shape of my face had changed. Totally changed. The day before I had taken a medical and weighed myself. I weighed myself again and I was seven pounds lighter. Turns out mental mass has a weight!

        Now this will all sound far-fetched and loopy to many but it happened. Accept, at the least, that I believe it happened and answer me what you’d do if just this one act – and I’ve had other similar experiences – had so positively changed your life?

        Would you turn your back on it?

        I couldn’t. I wanted others to experience what I had because that’s the sort of person I am.

        So, no, I don’t accept that nothing will save Scientology. On the contrary; nothing can destroy it.

        As for the Old Man, suffice to say that he’s never ceased to amaze.

        Also, ask yourself what would happen if a young man walked into DM’s office and announced that he was taking back the reins.

        I’d imagine he’d be RPF’ed.

      • martyrathbun09

        Huck, Thanks a lot for sharing this.

      • That’s a nice story Huck, I’m glad that you got such a huge win. I can well understand why you don’t want to give up Scientology after that. I’ve heard many stories of wins like this and I do feel rather envious, for I never experienced anything quite like that. Maybe that’s just because I didn’t arrive until 1986? In any case, I left because I couldn’t see how Scientology could deliver what was promised.

        Perhaps I haven’t made myself clear. I wasn’t talking about Scientology the subject being destroyed, I was talking about the ‘brand’ (for want of a better term). The name of Scientology has been forever tainted by what has happened in the past couple of decades. Scientology the subject (or at least the ‘best’ parts) will continue I’m sure, but it will have to have a new name if it is to have wide-spread appeal again.

        I can’t believe that if Hubbard were half the person I thought he was, that he would have: a) let his church get into such a mess that Miscavige was able to take over and b) that he hadn’t done anything about it by now.

        And if he did walk into DM’s office? I doubt that he’d get RPFed, more likely the tiny tyrant would attempt to run process R2-45.

        Ax

      • martyrathbun09

        Axiom 142. Who knows, maybe Jim Logan was right when he suggest a couple weeks ago that LRH knew exactly what he was doing – and knew that some day it would come to what we are facing today.

      • Ax, I’m sorry that you didn’t experience huge wins while in Scn. What’s real for you is real for you and I accept that and understand your disappointment and disillusionment. I wish it were different and hold out hope that perhaps one day it will be.

        LRH once said to Wilhere, “I’m not God, but I’m damned OT”. He wasn’t totally immune from human frailty. He had his faults, for sure, and his latter years were spent off the CoS lines, operating with data given to him by others.

        It wasn’t ideal at all but it was what it was and I tend to think we’re all in our own way responsible for how it all turned out.

        R2-45… yes, the Old Man had a very mischievous sense of humor.

    • Huckleberry . . .

      I’m trying to reply to your post about the win you had on the PTS handling, but this is the only Reply button I can find for you.

      I just wanted to say that was a very beautiful story. It definitely made my evening. 🙂

      • T-41, Thanks! It was a more beautiful experience than a story, trust me.

        When I first got the picture of the SP, I denied it (this was a terminal who’d been my “mentor” and a “hero” of mine) but his picture just wouldn’t go away until I finally cognited and, boy, what a cognition that was!

        I’ve had other wins of similar magnitude all the way up through NOTs, though I never again saw that electrical activity. I still to this day have no idea what that really was other than perhaps charge just dissipating. Puts a new spin on the Old Man’s line, “living lightning”.

        ARC,

        Huck

  32. Ok, so to clarify, and in an aesthetic way, hopefully to penetrate…
    Anger lacks reason. It also causes a reaction within a basically good being of knowing or unknowing cutting of reach.

    A problem, a ridge, exists because of equal opposite forces. Anger against anger makes a ridge, the flows (going on too long, get stuck, become a “held down 7”).

    In moments of unreasoning, even momentarily lapsed of reason, such as partial lying to embellish/create effect, power is rendered asunder.

    Games are not won in anger, it is perpetuated and causes personal lose of ability. Enthusiasm, acting according to basic purpose to help, identifies, differentiates, compares, swiftly and with increasing ability.

    As the bull is goaded to leave the back of its neck open to strike through the matadors baiting, so too is our movement of reform goaded.

    Be willing to be wrong, willing to change and correct and stay true to your own goal, not goaded into battle, which is the taking on of anothers goal control or destroy.

    Mans greatest weapon is his reason, maintain it to the highest order.

    • Martin, very nice selection. Can you give me a citation so I can look up the whole in context?

      • That what from my own “thinking with the data”.
        Basically:
        Ethics, justice and the dynamics.
        PTS/SP tech (a PTS can become a criminal, a criminal is trying “to get even”, there fore taking on a goal not personally originated, but based on revenge for an opposing influence).
        Mans greatest weapon – from Dianetics, and Ethics Justice and the Dynamics. Personal idea: “to maintain it”, from the corrolary of how one looses it by going down tone (Science of Survival).
        Flows data: tech dic “STUCK FLOW” (ref Dianetics 55!).
        Right/wrong: You can be right. Wrongness continued to assert rightness.
        Ridges: Tech dic. Ridge has location. My corollary equal flows become ridge, change from a directional thing to a located thing. Unequal flows contain direction aligned with strongest flow.
        My corrolary: Theta components= ARC. Higher A= higher C. C is a flow, therefore higher tone maintains motion, as it is a stronger flow. Going on too long becomes stuck. My corrolary: opposition terminal, at lower energy level gets has its flow forced to reverse, gradually gets stuck, and there fore stuck in the affinity of retreat, and the reality of failure, and beng stuck ACTUALLY IS CONTRIBUTING TO THE MOTION.

        Lets keep winning, eventually it will become effortless.

        The part about the bull, made up from some past concept, probably in “the art of war” or something like that.

      • martyrathbun09

        I am genuinely impressed Martin.

      • Thankyou.
        But I am just harmonizing with the big beings around me. I appreciate the company.

      • Boy, Marty, reading these comments this morning – you really called it. Fruits and vegetables aren’t all that’s being thrown. I really admire your ability to hold your position, and not give in to some pretty mean-spirited bull-baiting on your own blog.

        There is naturally some dissention within the ranks; we all have different viewpoints, unlike those who are stuck in easily identifiable valences. One in particular comes to mind. But I think we should keep our attention on who/what the enemy is here. It is CERTAINLY not Marty, or even Marty’s thoughts and words.
        And the fact that so much of today’s blog’s comments consist of certain people piling on, over a posting that was just a more strenuous re-phrasing of his Middle Path article, is probably making CERTAIN readers just delighted. Can I put our attention back on the
        important stuff?

      • And the aesthetic reference is from “Understanding the e-meter” on how fine the wave is, being a higher level of energy, played against another energy level releases energy.
        Aesthetics being so fine it can harmonise with any emotion wavelength. That reference I can’t recall. But this is from Scientology 8-80″What wave most closely approximates theta? It would be one of nearly infinite
        smallness, and that wave is found to be aesthetic, the wave length of the arts.” Page 12.
        History of Man: “A theta being can enjoy existence and emotional impact, he can plan and act. His
        activities lie about 8.0 on the tone-scale. He is very high aesthetically and devotes most of his
        time to aesthetics.
        Theta beings associate socially with theta beings and have a high sense of justice.”

        Hope that helps.

    • MG,
      Oh my, so nice to have you here 🙂 That’s as clean as a wolf’s tooth.

  33. Thought I’d change it up a bit and quote Kahil Gibran, and give the Buddha a rest 🙂

    The optomist sees the rose and not its thorns; the pessimist stares at the thorns, oblivious of the rose.”~ Kahlil Gibran

    Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahil Gibran

    Both quotes are directed mostly to Marty who I find to be a person of immense optimism.

    And the second as a bit of a wisdom for Marty to possible hold … as I feel the vitriol of polarized people is becoming more directed towards Marty.

    Not that I wish this of course but it’s pretty obvious if you have the stomach to read the anti-sites and even a few comments on this thread.

    Here’s what I constantly wonder? How come some are unable to see that people can change, do change and will change given the space and love to do so?

    Being cemented in hate and the past has been way of the world — which hasn’t gotten us very far and might even be the end of the world, UNLESS there is a rapid worldwide paradigm shift.

    Another brilliant Gibran that I feel we could all learn from: “An eye for an eye, and the whole world would be blind.”

    WH

    • Thanks. I read the Prophet again not too long ago. Wonderful stuff.

    • WH, as long as you guys are quoting brilliant people how about Newton?

      “Every body continues in its state of rest, or of uniform motion in a straight line, unless it is compelled to change that state by forces impressed upon it.”
      – Newton’s First Law of Motion, translated from the Principia’s Latin

      This applies here because no one is going to modify, solidify, or question their own opinions in a vacuum. Marty has an opinion, some agree, some don’t. No one is going to budge without some sort of force impressed upon it. Space and love aren’t all that’s needed. It’s not being cemented in hate. It’s debate. 🙂

      • Thanks Windhorse. Your comments are so delightfully meaningful. I enjoy them all.

      • Glibby,

        Newton’s law is perfectly applicable to MEST objects, but thetans are not MEST, at least not always! Thetans do have the ability to compel themselves to change with no external force impressed upon them. (Not that external force is not *sometimes* quite helpful.)

  34. crashing upwards

    Marty. I hope you followed through and had your helmet on. I think your post pointed to the downside of some actions which by their nature are self-defeating. Its a valid point. Attacks too general could be used to keep the failthful from looking at the content. But there are so many who want something done. Restraint is not popular.
    Its unfortunate but true that the public will never appreciate the difference of the philosophy from the current management. Bad press doesnt work that way. People follow attack lines. I think trying to make that point will be lost and useless, for the most part, except among those with an interest and understanding of the subject.
    Will reform ever come without direct legal assault? Doubtful. Will reform ever come before the philosphy is tarnished along with the management practices? Doubtful.
    Your desire to counsel only well thought out actions which carefully do not hurt the image of the subject are not likley to be successful. You will be like a guy trying to break up a fight who gets hit in the head.
    Its more than likely to be a damaging ending. Every day the damage mounts. Hopefully, some of you are invited in to help pick up the pieces and put humpty-dumpty back together again.

  35. It took me a few minutes of perfunctory research to discover that Senator Xenophon is an ambulance chasing lawyer whose running mate stood in the parliament in 2007 and called him a “chameleon” who’s not what he appears to be.

    Imagine what OSA will dig up on this guy?

    Thus the games condition continues …

    The solution is reform of the CofS, not its wholesale destruction.

    • Huck,
      I’ve sent an email to the Senator. I’ll find out for myself what mettle he displays. Is he a politician? In Canada we have a parliament, and it’s sessions are broadcast. The talk is cheap. So, we’ll see what and even if the Senator responds to my communication.

      • Senator Xenophon has received hundreds of emails during the last two days. He’s also rather busy. Perhaps you might choose a more apt test of his character than responding to your email.

      • Heather,
        I’m not sure I understand that statement. I’ve read his speech. I’ve sent a communication. I did the same to my own member of parliament here some time ago on an issue that concerned me and when he didn’t answer I voted for a being that did.

        No report is a bad indicator. It’s a valid indicator of his sincerity since he’s referencing the Times articles and I’m in one. Either he’s doing his homework or he isn’t.

  36. Marty wrote:

    “…I have lent effort to a number of 3rd dynamic justice actions in the past nine months that have been wasted, severely delayed, and possibly outright sabotaged by “the far left of the Scientology spectrum”. At the end of the day, if they don’t clean up their act – and show some tolerance – like your words “I respect anyone who still wants to practice Scientology” – I may end up mobilizing a defense to the assault myself. After all, I can’t trust Miscavige to protect the philosophy because that does not align with his purpose.”

    1. In what ways, exactly, have the “far left of the Scientology spectrum” wasted, severely delayed, and possibly outright sabotaged your 3rd dynamic justice actions?

    Can you let us know exactly how their actions have been destructive of progress?

    Can you please be specific here?

    2. You say that you may end up “mobilizing a defense to the assault” yourself.

    What is the assault, exactly, and how, exactly do you intend to mobilize a defense against it?

    Can a philosophy really be “assaulted”?

    3. How, exactly, do you “protect a philosophy”?

    These sound to me like old Scientology habits coming up as a response to things you may have seen before. That happens a lot when a person starts to get out of the Church and begins operating in the real world again.

    It’s important to notice these old habits when they emerge.

    Think about them. Are they really appropriate to life outside the Church and the Sea Org?

    Are they really completely rational in the context of the newly reformed Scientology I believe you are trying to create?

    • Alonzo, I held out such great hope for you. Your comm is verging on unreadable, having snapped terminals and been swept into the GPM on the far left side. You need to get out and have that walk and really distinguish yourself as an individual being and recoup a viewpoint of your own. It’ll make you feel a whole hell of a lot better.

      • I know the spirit in which you delivered this: you really do want to see me better off.

        All I’m asking you to do is to apply the discipline of being specific about the damage that the “left” has caused. And to be specific about how a philosophy can be “assaulted” and “protected”.

        I believe that the disciplined process of being specific about these things will produce new solutions that will be far more appropriate and constructive than the generalized policies LRH laid out to handle “critics” which have caused unmitigated disaster for so many years.

        It’s not a “following orders” or “following policy” kind of response which will be the most constructive, in my opinion.

        I still have huge respect for you, Marty. But you can’t go backwards. It’s time to think up new solutions to Scientology’s critics.

      • Marty, why don’t you tell us in what way specifically the “far left” has sabotaged your 3rd dynamic justice actions, so that we can LEARN from our fauls and not do them again?

        We won’t learn anything, if you keep speaking in meaningless generalities. Come up with some specifics, please.

      • martyrathbun09

        Anon – read my blog.

    • Alanzo,
      Apparently I’m now a terminal in that GPM so that walk will have to be done to full EP. (It’s in POW for a refresher.)

      The term ‘real world’ is fascinating to me. Is that some sort of place distinguished from the real world I’m looking at and have been for quite some time, as a Scientologist?

      I see cars, trees, bumblebees, oil bills, schools, voting booths where I vote according to conscience, laptops, blues bands and that’s gotta include Derek Trucks or you ain’t in PT, and all manner of ‘reality’.

      Long, long walk, looking out, even touch some stuff. You’ll feel better. I may even put my horns and tail back under cover.

      • My havingness process is “Feel that…”.

        I’ve often wondered, but had no one to ask: Is that process given only to horny people?

      • martyrathbun09

        It all depends on what the auditor indicates for you to feel.

      • Alanzo,
        In your Tech Vols is a phrase to do with responsibility, raising IQ and all sorts of ramifications. Look this up if you wouldn’t mind; ‘admit causing, able to withhold’.

      • Naw Jim, the real, real world is at Gold Base where happy Sea Org members go for long, meditative walks before returning to the dining hall for a nice, nourishing platter of Feijoada with rice and a healthy side of chard. At least that’s the PR we’re supposed to believe.

  37. This article was perfectly reasoned, I couldn’t agree more myself. I’m surprised some of the commenters have such a low differentiation level, although a lot of responses I could have predicted. Read again exactly what was written. Holy mother of god!

  38. Hi Marty,
    Just a couple of points here:
    1)I don’t know what the tax rates are in other countries, but here in the U.S. we pay between 15 and 38%, so getting $100,000 back and paying 38% is not a Pyrrhic victory. (I believe the picture of such a victory is the guy standing there saying “I conquered the town, I own it!” when the town has been burned to the ground and there are only ashes left to own.)
    2)Regarding strategy, it is easy to criticize one person’s or another’s approach, but usually in life there is no perfect solution except in hindsight. We may even plan a path of action and then reality intervenes and tells us that we did not have all the data and never could have had all the data ahead of time. Just look at having a baby–you think raising the child will go a certain way but you’d better be prepared for some failures as well as some successes. And when the kid is all grown up maybe you say, “Well, I didn’t do so bad.” But if people got all the data ahead of time concerning all the things that could go wrong and need fixing over the years, this planet would be empty! No one would ever have a kid! So maybe we just have to let this thing get “born” and help it grow up as best we are able.

    • Mockingbird:
      On one, you are responding to someone else’s comment, not mine.
      On two, on the last sentence “So maybe we just have to let this thing get “born” and help it grow up as best we are able”, that is what I am trying to do. The only reason it looks like something different is that I am not dealing with an innocent baby, but more like glue-sniffing juvenile delinquents. But, I’ll take your advice and try to be more understanding.

  39. Barry Van Sickle

    Marty,
    I have read the Art of War several times. It was first recommended to me by Vicki Aznran in circumstances that you probably recall.

    I respect your opinions and agree with much of what you say but this last post was a little personal. I have my faults but being a greedy lawyer looking for easy money at the expense of my clients is not among them.

    Ironically, I have consulted with class action lawyers and have found that most are only interested in the fee and care little about individual clients. That is one reason I have avoided class actions. There are many considerations here, however, and there are benefits of a class action such as potential tolling of statutes of limitations for the class.

    Scientology did not invent hard ball litigation and , in my experience, is not much better at it than most large businesses that can afford the large monthly bills. It goes with the turf.

    The Mackeys, and many others, have tried writing letters and geting refunds on their own. Their requests were delayed and eventually denied. I am fairly certain that there is not a steamline of refund payments in the works that will be interupted by my actions. I could be wrong but most will not get refunds without taking action beyond writing rwquest letters.

    Taking the middle path sounds like a good idea, but who gets to define the middle path in your approach? My suggestion is that the law of the land is the middle path. The labor lawsuits only ask that the Scientology enterprise follow the law with respect to those who work so hard for it. People who work 100 hour weeks making videos for Scientology so that it does not have to pay market or legal wages to outside vendors is not the request of haters, far left luatics, or shyster lawyers. It is the law, and Scientology’s basic response is that it does not have to obey the law. That is not the middle path, it is an extreme path.

    If the IAS is being used as DM’s private slush fund , as I think some of your comments suggest, then this is an activity that can be rightly questioned by those who surrendered their life savings to accomplish what the IAS saleperson represented would be done with the donations.

    I am not asking for a response Marty or trying to win a debate. What I have said here I would say over a friendly cup of coffee if I had the opportunity.

    Cheers,
    Barry

    • Barry, you noted “My suggestion is that the law of the land is the middle path.” I would expect an ethical lawyer to suggest something like that. But, as you know not all lawyers, nor all judges are ethical, hence the need for an ethical one to wisely use strategy to navigate the shark infested waters. To the degree you attack “scripture” your lawsuits are losers. The facts are that most of the actionable conduct your clients will ever complain of are GREAT departures from “scripture” (as defined by your opponent over and over again as LRH tech and policy). If you can keep your eye on the ball you have a better than even chance of obtaining some justice.
      Marty

      • Barry,
        Over coffee, I’d have said what Marty just did. Only he’s pretty good at saying it and sometimes I just don’t find the words.

    • Barry,
      I don’t know you personally, but from what you’ve written in response here, I’d sit down for coffee.
      Jim

    • “If the IAS is being used as DM’s private slush fund”

      Then it is violation of IRS code 501(c)(3). If funds inure to an individual, that’s a violation and grounds for loss of charitable status.

    • Barry,

      As one of many Scientologists who have been defrauded and swindled by the IAS, Super Power, etc, I tip my hat to you for your courage in the pursuit of justice.

      The claim that David Miscavige spent $70 million on his personal office, voiced by several former executives (like Marty), is shocking in and of itself. The Church has yet to deny this claim. Or the claim that $30 million was spent renovating the empty building next door.

      I would very much like to see an investigation regarding this alleged $100 million in renovations and where the funds came from – or I would like to see financial statements that disprove these allegations.

      In addition to potential IAS fraud, I believe the Library campaign is another fraud. This is a program where parishioners have been “donating” books to libraries at a rate of approx. $22/book, when each book only costs Bridge Publications $1 to produce. The Church has been diverting the profits to the IAS, in order to “spearhead dissemination all over the world” – from a middle Management source.

      Based on $21 profit for each book donated, and the Church’s claim that 2.5 million books have been donated to libraries, this translates into a $52.5 MILLION profit for the IAS. I don’t know if this violates any laws (I’m not a lawyer), but it reeks of fraud. It’s clear that the “Library campaign” was really just another scheme to get money for the IAS – though this was never divulged to parishioners making donations to the library campaign.

      I hope there will one day be litigation, too, against the Church for the library scam (and it really is a scam, too, because there isn’t any evidence that these 2.5 million books are in the libraries).

      Cheers.

      • The sad sad piece of this Library Donation scam is that libraries do NOT have the space to take unsolicited books. And since LRH Books are not top of their priority (sorry they are not) – these books get tossed out. Pure and simple. They are just thrown away.

        Back in the early 80’s another book donation scam was going on — I donated a full library on behalf of my dad … and when I went to visit that library a few years later — nope — not a donated book in site. And never had been on the shelf.

        It’s worse than you think — and those IC know it.

        WH

      • martyrathbun09

        WH, so in fact it does come full circle. On DM’s side of the spectrum are the greatest LRH book burners of all.

      • The greatest bookburners where the Nazi’s and the Communists. I see you use the Far right touches the far Left Circle of Politics in a Y and Z axes Evirement. Yes I aggree with that.

  40. The comments on this and other blogs reveal the vast gulf in reality between those who have had life-changing gains from Scientology and those who have “progressed” to the upper levels with little or no case gain.

    Powered by hope alone, the members of this latter group are easy prey to doubts and black PR since they have no stable data that the tech actually works.

    Those of us who received auditing and training more than 20 years ago can remember the incredible joy of 24/7 out of body living and watching miracles take place almost every day.

    When I read about Sea Org members with years of service and no real auditing, I see a betrayal of the worst kind on the part of Int Mgmt.

    One of the best things that will happen is when the independent field offers repair actions for all case levels.

    Sometimes it doesn’t take much. The right indication can rehabilitate heavily invalidated case states.

    A person who has never experienced case gain or past lives from Scn processing has every reason to believe from personal experience that it is all a scam.

    If independent Scientologists continue to grow in numbers and in strength, those who have been denied gains because of out-tech will have a chance to get the gains they are capable of.

    Saving the field is what its all about. A distributed model of service may be the future if the CofS is not reformed.

  41. Alanzo, there’s much blame to go around if we want to get caught up in shame/blame/regret.

    The Old Man wasn’t perfect and got into this way of thinking that had him seeing infiltrators and double agents at every turn. They were there, of course, and he wasn’t safe for decades but under duress and stress his response became heavy-handed and done with a militarist’s disregard for collateral damage.

    The RPF became an unmitigated disaster but the idea of taking someone off post and putting them on MEST duties while they sorted themselves out isn’t a terrible one.

    When it’s used as a form of draconian torture, it’s obviously abberative. Similarly, degrading a being by not allowing them to speak unless spoken to is disgusting and has nothing in common with the ARC-ful theta Scientology I know.

    We can laundry list outpoints and point at LRH and blame him for the whole mess but what would that achieve and, moreover, how would that now satisfy you?

    JLogan, Senator X does indeed seem to be a run-of-the-mill politician to me; I get the John Edwards vibe from him though I know virtually nothing about him other than what I’ve read this morning. He seems to like the television cameras. He announced he was running for the Senate in front of the giraffe exhibit at the local zoo because, he said, he was “sticking his neck out”. Took a goat to a big mall in his hometown to make the point that he wasn’t “kidding around”.

    Wow…

  42. Marty,

    This is a GREAT post! Some of these commenters are not really duplicating your points. Sad!
    I am sure Senator Xenophon would appreciate your points mentioned here if he reads them. We all want DM’s Ethics to be put in for all his abuses and crimes. Then it is up to individuals if they want to practice Scietnology or not.

  43. Wow I guess my point was well missed here. RJ firstly calm down. Your overuse of the exclamation point leads me to believe that you may have almost broken your keyboard in response to what I wrote.

    I am not a “hater” because I sincerely do not HATE the subject of Scientology. I think that was misunderstood perhaps earlier.

    But there is plenty to hate about what is going on currently in this “church”. I use the quotation marks there not to challenge the religious validity of Scientology because I am not a religious scholar so I wouldn’t get in to that debate, but I use the quotation marks to show that the current version that is out there for the public and all to see is not really a church at all.

    A place where its priests aka SO and Staff members live in disheveled, low grade properties, are subjected to poverty and live in fear of even so much as thinking to question its “leader”. A place where parishioners are forced under threat of eternal damnation to make lavish donations and to desert their own children so that they can make spiritual progress toward “total freedom”.

    Well if you look at the “Church” of Scientology from that viewpoint, from the viewpoint of someone who has never been a Scientologist and can only see that it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to achieve this freedom and sometimes that freedom comes with great turmoil to the person’s life and family. Well maybe then you could see how someone might call in to question whether or not these goings on constitute a religion at all.

    Religion itself is based on helping and making people better and achieve a better existence through worship and living a better life by example.

    When you are shrouded in secrecy and flat out lies being told to the entire planet by the spokesperson of the church there really isn’t any other logical conclusion.

    So when people like myself or this Senator are angry, we aren’t angry with people who believe in Scientology we are angry with the lies, the laws broken by child servitude, with the millions of dollars stolen from hard working people. That is what we are angry about.

    If being angry at clear outpoints that have even been brought up by Marty here on this blog makes me a “left wing” type of person then so be it. I am mad as hell and I am not going to be quiet when there are injustices going on.

    Thomas Jefferson put it best when he said:
    “It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. ”

    I am here to fight for every Scientologist out there who wants to practice it without having to be enslaved to do so. But in order to do that all of the skeletons have to come out of the closet. And everyone responsible for these atrocities has to be held accountable, period.

    I think it is time for all of us to get a little mad about what is going on and really do something about it. Not just sit on our laurels telling stories by the campfire and waiting for DM and the rest to implode on their own. Too many innocent lives are at stake here.

    • Ex RPFer wrote: ‘I am here to fight for every Scientologist out there who wants to practice it without having to be enslaved to do so.’ Welcome aboard.

    • Sometimes it’s easier to hit the (!) then the (.) especially when in the heat of debate 😉

      Look I understand you Ex-RPFer because I’ve read many of your posts and know you honestly care.

      The same can not be said about Xenophon who as far as I’m concerned is just another sleazy politician.

      Therefore comparing yourself or a Statesman like Jefferson to Xenophon is an invidious comparison as far as I’m concerned.

      The man from what I can see is only interested in political leverage.

      Also yes there is a lot to clean up regarding Scientology but that isn’t so it can be acceptable to a public who are easily misled by people like Xenophon, but so it can be applied standardly.

      Personally I was never into the old approval button.

      My view is who cares what some public opinion poll says. Yeah so 70% of American’s supported the invasion of Iraq, until they found out it was based on lies and obfuscation of facts.

      In short they change like the weather.

  44. David, yours is precisely the viewpoint I share about the nature of the turmoil the CofS finds itself in.

    Marty chose to censor a post I made about someone’s admission that they didn’t get much case gain out of the OT levels. This is disturbing to me because I’ve experienced unending case gain and when the auditing’s gone bad – as it has from time to time – I’ve spotted it, taken responsibility and gone and got it handled to an F/N and VGIs.

    Much of the enturbulation currently encircling Scientology can be understood through this lens: you ask a theta being who wants to help to sign a billion year contract and then subject them to long hours, little pay, Dickensian living conditions – all of which they’re probably willing to endure – but the mother of all havingnesslessnesses comes when you either deny them auditing and case gain altogether or provide it in a dilettante, haphazard manner. So many of these people will one day shrug their shoulders and say, What am I doing here?

    Because beyond the Thursday at 2pm delivery of stats, they don’t really know.

    Also, Marty, this blog gets unwieldy when there aren’t references to what you’re responding to. “Makes me wonder about your original opening line”. Whose?

    • Huck, I interpreted that case gain comment as an attack on someone’s inherent spiritual state. Regardless of wins or no, or lack of current participation or even like for the subject, I consider he has done more than a lot of people in forwarding the cause. Even if he doesn’t see eye to eye on where it all winds up. I’ll use more comm discipline to hopefully make things more understandable. The “makes me wonder…” comment was directed at Heather.

  45. On a side not, Mr. Rathbun I have never had anything but the utmost respect and admiration for you. I think what you are doing, even by putting up with my comments on this forum, is wonderful.

    Thank you very much for the opportunity to talk freely about how I feel about things going on. I am passionate, not out of hate but because I care so much.

    I hope you can see that. I know sometimes when things are written on a blog it is hard to convey sincerity but I am sincere.

  46. Great article, Marty. I agree that it is spot-on, and totally duplicated your view.. without additives.

    It is indeed a good follow-up to The Great Middle Path Redux, which I also relished. In fact, I am very appreciative of your blog here, and some other sane and stable ones that have sprouted up in the relatively recent past. Much thanks from me to you all.

    Please continue to be yourself, and keep up the good work.

    By the way, nice handling of the grouses. Wow… this bush was full of ’em! That goes for you, too, Jim Logan. Very refreshing and entertaining! Thanks for that, also.

  47. Why don’t these critics of Marty take their negative energy somewhere else?

    Not to say that everyone must agree with him (obviously), but I read some downright RUDE communication above. Try using philosophy and the art of debate, rather than ATTACK mode.

    Marty, thank you for this post. I need to look into this Xenophon thing for myself to really have a viewpoint of my own. But at first glance, I would say that it’s quite a shame that this is now a Justice matter where there is government intervention. Church’s failed to get ethics in on themselves and now it is being forced in from the outside.

    • Jane, I asked for it. Despite the allegations to the contrary – I operate on the multiple viewpoint system and learn stuff from all this.

  48. The stupid thing to do is to fight each other. It would be foolish for the Mackey’s lawyers and Australian authorities to not seek Marty’s help and knowledge about the inner workings of CoS, and it would be foolish on Marty’s part to not help them target the real unlawful CoS abuses and crimes rather than fight the Scientology philosophy and practice.
    We all want the same thing eventually: the end of the abuses and lies and everyone free to walk their own spiritual path ethically.

  49. Marty, you will never be the leader in Scientology.
    This just shows you still can’t confront what you have done.

  50. Scientology = Baby

    Toxic Management (non-Scientology) = Bath Water

    Does Senator Xenophon possess the intelligence, education, wisdom and social goodwill to make that distinction?

  51. -Their lead witness – Aron something? – is going to be filleted. I don’t even know the guy – yet, on its face, his story doesn’t add up. Again, I am not going to do their research for them.-

    A question abou this, what is it that doesnt add up in his story? It feels a bit low to say that “it doesnt add up” without giving Specifics.
    Please do.

  52. “Terril, this reference to the “same guy who wrote the Data Series” indicates you just don’t quite get Scientology. ”

    Looks to me like miscommunication, and I accept responsibility for that.

    I’ve been promoting “TECH outside COS” for a decade or so and have been more successfull than anyone in letting people know its possible.

    I must ” get” something!

    In passing when I started on this road, I thought OSA would attack me severely. I know from insiders they have a file on me. Perhaps it was you or Mike who ordered no action taken. Or perhaps I was considered of no importance.

    Glad I was never targeted!

    I was an E/O, also OEC/FEBC, did data series twice, and I love DS!

    Havn’t had your experience of hands on application, but have had … a decade or more of thought on matters.

    I don’t question anything much re tech. Not qualified.

    I am qualified to have an opinion and comment on green and white. Like you I consider DM, RTC to be primarily using reverse ethics tech and admin.

    The most important aspect of that is First Policy, ” Maintain friendly relations with the environment and your public. ” We can readily see how RTC reverses this.

    Look at the possibility that you have strayed slightly into such a situation?

    My post somewhat indirectly looked at a central personal idea, that anytime one wishes to apply some green on white it is good to look at it again in a new unit of time and see if this still is usefull.

    Alas, I confess to being a rondroid here. 🙂

    The old man said in ” THE STRUCTURE OF ORGANISATION WHAT IS POLICY” hcopl
    13 MARCH 1965

    Loosely if a policy is no longer usefull or even counter productive, get rid of it.

    Geez! I’m getting into a bit of a rant.

    Who are your public?” Who should be your public?

    Clearly you, and Geir for that matter, are reaching some that my promotional efforts don’t reach. I REALLY appreciate that.

    However your public is far wider, is global for those concerned in whatever way with our subject, and the RTC. To put it mildly you have ruffled some feathers.

    “Dude, you can find an LRH reference for any proposition you wish to advance – including ones that seem to directly contradict one another. You gotta read it in context and learn how to play the piano. It works quite well for someone solely concerned with helping another, and it works quite nefariously for someone trying to do another in. You certainly don’t get that I am offering advice. Oh, well.”

    I’m offering advice also. 🙂

    Maybe I don’t play the piano so well. But
    surely a little differently, and always in the hope it is of some value to others. Very happy for a jam session and hope its worth listening too. 🙂

  53. Marty I have found you out. You are hiding from truth and honesty. You are a not owning up to your own crimes. Little Marty is a victim BOO HOO HOO. Looser.

    • Cornelius Antonius Martens, is this childish message due to me not approving your posting a nearly ten minute of video of Inquiry Star witness Aaron’s video? I did that in defense of the kid, till I can review all his material. I’ll tell you what, I watched that first video, and regardless of what I find in the other 6, he has already proven my prediction of his ultimately filleting at the hands of Church lawyers. Grow up.

    • Cornelius, PS: Your response is precisely why I am heavily criticizing the latest “wins” reported from the dark side. This juvenile mentality – and lack of professional investigation and preparation that goes with it is precisely why such ill advised attacks should be criticized. It is purely amateur hour and in the end will empower DM.

  54. Marty,

    Just an observation. Your tone, or “out-of-ARC” noted by one poster; is reminiscent of Dennis Erlich’s tone in 1994 when he started realizing his fame and power from his net postings.

    That tone kept degenerating as time passed as he downwardly spiraled into admitted copyright infringement activities–that were SURPRISINGLY rewarded by the very people you worked with at OSA! To the tune of millions, estimated by some.

    The point is, keep up the “out-of-ARC” tone–maybe there will be a big payday in your future!

    • The only response I can think of for Tom K is: They only come out at night.

      • The title of the most awesome Edgar Winter Group album containing one of the mightest rock and roll hits EVUH – “Frankenstein” – is “They Only Come Out At Night”.

        Was that an intentional reference, by chance ?

        Michael A. Hobson

      • martyrathbun09

        Hobson, play it backwards and you tell me.

  55. Wow Marty, I’d say that the title for this article was appropiate and prophetic!

    Personally any doubts I had about Xenophon’s probe were eradicated by the following statement:

    “Scientology is not a religious organisation, it’s a criminal organisation that hides behind its so-called religious beliefs,”

    This statement is completely prejudicial!

    It is also a complete generality!

    Anyone who now claims that the Senator’s inquisition is going to be anything but biased from this point on is as far as I’m concerned deluded!

    As far as I’m concerned the man is a religious bigot!

    Would he say that the Roman Catholic Church was a “criminal organization” because it had pedophiles masquerading as priests?

    Or that the “Religious Right” which consists of various Protestant Churches are “criminal organization” because many are involved in questionable legal activities such as diverting millions of dollars of donations to fund off the book covert operations originally against the Soviets and now against Islam.

    Speaking of Islam is that a “criminal organization” because many terrorists claim they are following the Quran?

    Let’s not forget about the Mossad part of the Jewish State of Israel that uses assassination as a means of political control.

    Does this make all Jews criminal even if they don’t agree with this excessive use of force?

    In fact a rather long list can be made of various religious organizations, groups and individuals from all the major “approved” in some cases state sponsored religions that have participated in illegal acts that make the crimes that Miscavige and his cronies have committed pale in comparison!

    Yet I doubt if the Honorable Senator will ever mention these facts. So these questions are purely rhetorical.

    Throwing his probe’s raison d’etre of “justice” into question!

    In my view the man is nothing but another hypocritical politician!

    Another thing was I had to laugh when someone compared the police and the judicial system to HCO. In fact this is exactly what Miscavige and his minions do!

    In fact one Miscavigivite had the audacity to compare the US Military to HCO by claiming that what they were actually doing with their endless wars of aggression was “putting in ethics”!

    No what is putting ethics on Miscavige first and foremost is the environment. His operating environment has changed. Brave people like you Marty are speaking up and exposing his criminal acts and are telling the truth that what he is doing is antipathetic to the Religion of Scientology and Scientologists are refusing to contribute to Miscavige’s religious perversions. What we call squirreling and his power base is beginning to collapse because the truth is being revealed!

    Not because some corrupt and hypocritical politician is now on some kind of Jihad over Scientology to score points with his constituents or because some equally corrupt Government agency has now decided to “put ethics in” (even if they knew what the subject of ethics was) or is even concerned about “justice”!

    Any one who believes that most politicians or Government agencies are even interested in ethics and justice, have as far as I’m concerned been brain washed by their civics classes!

    Okay I’ve said all I wanted to say about all of this plus and additionally I totally agree with what Marty says about the scene. So let the stones and arrows fly!

    • To RJ: I am glad someone finally bothered to actually review the record (as it sits thus far).

    • “Scientology is not a religious organisation, it’s a criminal organisation that hides behind its so-called religious beliefs.”

      With all due respect RJ, I spent 15 years at the Int Base, and I’d say the above perfectly describes DM’s operation. There was nothing religious about the Int Base, period. It is unfortunate that the way society tends to view Scientology is based on the actions of the current Church. Personally, I don’t think the current Church has anything to do with religion. If their status as a religion is being challenged, they only have themselves to blame. I think that good, conscientious Scientologists, like yourself, Marty, and others, applying their beliefs towards human betterment has everything to do with religion. Getting the general public to see it that way will require work, but can be done. I think trying to shore up the reputation of the current Church is a losing battle, as they are doing everything to forward a negative image. Just my two cents.

      • fishdaddy,

        I agree with everything you have written here in your response except the point about any attempt to shore up the Church’s reputation.

        To quote Clark Gable playing Rhet Butler in Gone with the Wind, “Frankly, My Dear, I Don’t Give A Damn” about the Church’s reputation!

        This has nothing to do with it. What I object to is Xenophon’s biased and bigoted approach!

        Take the following statement and in place insert an “accepted” and “approved” religious organization like the Roman Catholic Church.

        What would happen if he said:

        “The Roman Catholic Church is not a religious organisation, it’s a criminal organisation that hides behind its so-called religious beliefs.”

        Both you and I know what would happen!

        His constituents who are Roman Catholic and those who believe in religious freedom and civil rights would hand Mssr. Xenophon’s head back to him on a silver platter and he’d probably be censured by the Senate.

        Never mind the fact that the media would have a field day with his statement comparing him to the far right of the National Alliance and other neo-nazi organizations.

        Yet the man knows he can get away with calling Scientology a “so called religion”, which indicates to me that he is nothing but a sleazy politician, who likes to attack unpopular minorities for his own aggrandizement.

        Maybe I would of been more trusting of his motives if he said correctly that there are those in the Church of Scientology who have used the cloak of religion to cover up their crimes or something to that effect, but instead he attacks the organization and the subject inclusively without differentiation.

        He makes no distinction between the organization and the religion itself, which I also find hypocritical because I’m sure he’d be making such a distinction if there were rumors or reports of criminal activity in an “approved” religion.

        Finally and most importantly I don’t have an endearing and touching faith in the sanctity of the cult of the state, that unfortunately many critics and yes many Scientologists have especially those who have swallowed the hook, line and sinker that Miscavige tossed out in 1993 that “the Government is now our friend”.

        What I’ve personally seen and actually personally researched gives no indication that this is so. Government is still controlled by vested interests that would like nothing more than to eliminate the subject of Scientology and if they can’t overtly succeed in doing that, at least co-opt and pervert it to their own ends.

        Xenophon, like Miscavige either witting or unwittingly represent that faction.

  56. Ever hear of a “broken brand”?

    A “broken brand” is an interesting marketing phenomena. It is an ARCX of great magnitude and is not fixed with PR or ethics handlings.

    There once was a car called the Yugo which had everything going for it when it launched, but buyers found out that it was a really bad deal.
    It was recently voted the worst car of the Millenium and has been the butt of jokes for years.

    A brand is a “promise to deliver” and when the delivery does not match the promise, it is almost impossible to repair the upset.

    We were part of a group that set high expectations and then didn’t meet them.
    In fact the technology that freed many of us has now been altered in an effort to cave staff and public in and suppress them.

    As a result, all of the PR and threat capabilities of the CofS are failing to convince buyers to sign up for more services.

    The brand of the CofS and of Scientology itself may be irreversibly harmed.

    Time will tell, but I am not sure either will survive as viable brands.

    There is another aspect of this that merits consideration. All those who are associated with promoting these broken brands will be tagged as untrustworthy in the eyes of the public. They become associated with the betrayal of public trust.

    As hard working staff realize the liability of that association, they will begin to explore alternative careers.

    If we show compassion to those staff members who are desperately trying to stem the tide of departures, it may blow ridges and result in unexpected cognitions.

    We live in interesting times.

    • David, thanks for that perspective. Very interesting times.

      • In my opinion, the brand of Scientology could be repaired by replacing the leadership, relaunching as “The New Church of Scientology” and coming cleaning about all abuses, illegalities, etc. — this would have to include cancelling any counter-productive policies.

        But as someone else pointed out, that’s LRH (from policy of 13 March 1965) “Loosely if a policy is no longer useful or even counter productive, get rid of it”.

        It would take some time, but I think the “brand” of “Scientology” could be repaired, even if the current church and/or Miscavige goes through the ringer in the court system.

        Of course, the longer it takes to bring about a reform, the harder it will be.

  57. I am posting a quote that Mary made early on because I think it is at the core of what he is saying:

    “They (the far left) are the folk that consider me more a threat to their ends than Miscavige will ever be. They consider me a threat for what I write and speak publicly about – saving the philosophy from the organization, and making it safe to study and practice Scientology in a sane, helping fashion.”

    This blog is aptly named. It’s about moving on up a little higher. It is not about opening the door to wholesale discrimination of religions based on the abusive actions of individuals within a religion or even its leadership.

    It would be just as fruitless to scream “it’s not a religion” when abuses are uncovered in the Roman Catholic Church, in Islam, in Mormonism, or any other religion.

    Scream abuse, yes, but do not forget that abuse also includes demands to deny someone their right to practice their religious beliefs even if you do not see eye to eye with it.

  58. “If it’s not fun, it’s not Scientology!”

  59. Concerned Citizen

    Well, I stopped reading after about 10 comments. So many people here are so getting tangled on the words, missing the forest, jungles and even desserts for the one little tree. What Marty is saying clear as can be is that if this person or anyone else bringing inquiries on the church, acts angrily and makes comments that challenge Scientology’s Religious status at all, it feeds the IAS money machine. Simple as that, DM can cry out how it is “SPs attacking because we are expanding soooo much”
    Furthermore, other intelligent and caring non-scientologist in positons of power, who value freedom of conscience may look at it as an attack on a system of beliefs and simply close the doors on further attempts to bring correct action . It is simply a point of the tone level used and the way it is expressed. Care to differentiate between the management and the philosophy. Equanimity and not anger would serve us a LOT better. (Even diligently pointing out the references being violated would not only bring truth out and resonate even with staunch defenders of freedom of conscience everywhere, as not an attack on anyone’s beliefs but on the violations of such beliefs)
    Anger evokes memories of the Mccarthy’s red scare era. It is a commonly held belief that anger clouds reason and so anyone arguing angrily is dominated by emotion and not necessarily reason, and in the circles where justice is sought, reason is valued. Lastly, I think he is also making a point that this effort could result in not reform, but the banning of Scientology, period. Do I have to explain how destructive that would be for those of us who value the subject? In spite of denials, there are those who seek just that. And if that were achieved, it would be music to DM’s ears, here he’d have the perfect justification for all manner of extreme measures, and fund raising.
    Marty is not anywhere near as nasty as many people are on other forums, such as WWF, EXSCN, etc. So you don’t like the way he expresses his views? Try stepping on his shoes. If anyone knows how to successfully bring legal action against the church he is. Apparently he has counseled some on how to do it and these people have let their emotions carry them and not the equanimity he has recommended. The efforts did not come to fruition as they should have. I too would be upset. Almost anyone can see equanimity is a very wise advice. So he feels a bit frustrated. To repeat the arguments before, he is not perfect and he is just human, his frustration does not make him nasty. He should also be afforded the right to free speech so many demand. Try to understand what he says instead of immediately thinking this is a personal attack directed at you. And for those who insist in seeing their names where they aren’t –again, If the shoe fits wear it!!!

  60. martyrathbun09 // November 19, 2009 at 10:46 pm | Reply

    “Terrill, now I am beginning to hear a little music out of that piano of yours.”

    I’ve of course been hearing yours for a while. 🙂

    I’d like to speak personally if that ‘s OK. I can be called on 0208-864-4940 in london UK
    and I can call back the US for free.

    I’m basic2basic@yahoo.com

    Also terril.park on skype.

  61. Just to offer a few viewpoints. First – I get completely why those on Marty’s side are on his side. People who believe in the tech dearly and want to be Scientologists. I can also get why the critics are offended at being compared to David Miscavige and at being given Scientology explanations for their behavior (GPMs). My point being not to take a side but to point out that anyone who thinks they’re being truly pan-determined in this argument is probably wrong.

    RJ, I do want to comment on this:

    “Would he say that the Roman Catholic Church was a “criminal organization” because it had pedophiles masquerading as priests?”

    My reply would be: ‘if not, he should.’ The Roman Catholic Church was operating as a criminal organization then. Not because some priests were pedophiles – bad seeds will show up in the best groups – but because they covered it up. I’d say no religious pass in that case. That’s how I see the Australia thing. Let’s face it – the Church IS operating as a criminal organization right now. Hell, from everything I’ve read on this blog, that’ s certainly not just a critics only viewpoint.

    I agree that he stepped out of line with ‘so called religious beliefs’, but I can also see where he might get angry enough to vent like that. I mean, he has no experience with Scientology. He just has these long term horror stories. And I mean REALLY horrible stuff! I can see how he might be doubtful of the subject of Scientology itself in such a case. That doesn’t mean he can’t turn around later. To him, Scientology = forced abortions/abuse/torture etc etc. It doesn’t = ARC, KRC, the tone scale, etc etc. I guess my point is: with the information he currently has, he has no reason to give Scientology the SUBJECT the benefit of a doubt. That doesn’t mean he’s a religious bigot at heart.

    He’s going after the organization, which right now is a criminal organization. There’s no reason someone can’t make him aware of the distinction between Scientology and the COS, at the right time. Don’t lose that opportunity because you’re not making the distinction yourselves.

    You guys aren’t in the COS anymore. And that’s a GOOD thing. Because Scientology won’t survive there. The truth is, the best chance the subject of Scientology has for being practiced as you want it to be practiced is by doing what you’re doing.

    And, in my careful opinion, DM will only be ousted by either him blowing or an outside agency stepping in. There’s no reason to think that he’d ever be toppled from within. Case in point: Marty, Jim, Mariette, Joe – all high-power people. But not one of you was up to the task when you were inside and under him – which is not meant as a hostile criticism. Just making the point.

    Finally, regarding the critics… I think you have it wrong. I think 99% of all critics would be completely satisfied with the destruction of the organization (as it exists). I don’t think they’d then pursue the subject of Scientology to the ends of the earth. Not by a long shot. That’s a ‘special’ kind of anger. I mean, they may think Scientology is a load of BS, but I also thought the Republicans who voted Bush into office were complete retards, and told them so whenever the opportunity presented itself. That doesn’t mean I wanted to destroy the Republican party!

    No, what pisses people off (on average, by and large) is not Scientology. It’s the obvious stuff. Enforced disconnection. Enforced abortions. Lisa M. Poor workplace practices. The ‘pope’ beating his staff! Get rid of that, and 99% of the hubbub about ‘Scientology’ will disappear. Example: Marty – do you really think Alanzo is out to destroy the subject of Scientology?

    Or another – personally, I think Catholicism is silly. But I don’t care how many Catholics eat the body of Christ and genuflect, so long as their Church isn’t covering up for priests who screw children.

    You want to disseminate? You need to be a little more pan-determined, in my humble opinion. Think about it. It would actually be a BAD indicator if Xenophon thought well of Scientology BASED ON THE INFORMATION HE HAS.

    The enemy of my enemy = well… if not my friend, then at the least, my temporary ally.

    Again, I get where people are coming from, but I think cooler heads could prevail on both sides. I’m not a practicer of Scientology anymore, but I completely understood those who are. I have no problem seeing both sides of this argument, but I think any ‘diametric opposition’ is an error in observation.

    • Anotherview, all very nice and pan determined sounding. You are wrong about the facts and pan determinism. Nonetheless, thank you for your measured and well written view.

  62. Sorry, one other thing. Marty, I think I have a why on you being the brunt of the BPC for the ex-community. And it’s not (in the greatest part) because of who you were or what you did in the COS. It’s because you are viewed as the head of the ‘New Independent Field’ – the collection of people that have sprung up in your wake. And by default, any of those who post positively or in support of you are viewed as ‘your people.’

    ‘So what’ you ask?

    Well, ‘so what’ in two ways. The first is if any of ‘your people’ post worrisome or offensive stuff and you do nothing about it – you’re viewed as responsible. EG, like when Alanzo appeared and vented to Mike R about what happened with his dad. His wasn’t the most laudable comment ever posted, but I think cool heads could grasp the BPC and handle it better. Instead, he kind of got gang banged by ‘your people’, and no one ever stepped in and sorted it out objectively. Same with John Peeler. I totally got that you had your own BPC on being the whipping boy in that conversation with him, but… what can I say, dude? Like it or not, you made yourself the head of this group, whatever it is. John’s comm was pretty even-handed, but he really got nailed hard. Critics with BPC on the COS see that stuff and they worry. A lot. Then RJ, with his posts about Paulette Cooper benefiting from Operation Freakout, and again, no comment from you on that. I know, I know, it ain’t fair, but I’m just telling you how it IS, not how it should be: people see an organization forming and they see you as the head of it. So they hold you responsible for what ‘your people’ do.

    The second point is this: You guys are the new COS. No, I don’t mean literally – I mean, that’s what people see. Except you can actually be talked to. You reply to things. So you should probably not be surprised that there are plenty of people ready to vent in your direction. Especially you, Marty. You were ‘second in command’ to the Evil One. Now you are the head of this new group. You’ll do fine as an approximation of the group and person we’d really like to shout at. 🙂 Again, it’s not fair, but it is understandable – if you want to understand it. I’m not intimating you’re required to. But there are people who have really, deeply, lost. People who’ve lost whole families. Spouses. Children. And yeah, they’ve had the various message boards, but nothing that would give them even the approximation that they were having a comm cycle with the COS. No acks, no TR 4. Just silence or violence. Now there’s the ‘Marty Group’ and – wow – is it restimulative! The guy heading it up was basically DM’s second in command, and all the people following him are ex highups, including the former WDC OSA/CO OSA! But there’s one KEY difference – the possibility of a real comm cycle. And I have to say, I think you’re blowing it there. I’m not talking about Anon. I’m talking about the Alanzo’s and John Peelers of the world. I’m talking about me.

    See, you have the opportunity to deal with an aspect of Scientology’s PRO relation to the world that the COS is not currently set up to deal with. The public I’m talking about are ‘ex Scientologists who no longer want to practice the subject’. Such public in the past have simply been disconnected from. The mere fact that they don’t want to practice the subject has put them in the ‘insane/sp/bad person’ category, after which they are generally badly handled. The problem with this is that it creates ENEMIES, instead of simply creating EXes. And that’s because the COS equates EX=ENEMY. Every church in history has had to learn this lesson, eventually. It just doesn’t work to regard a ‘former believer’ as a probable evil individual. Someone like Alanzo, for example (sorry, Alanzo) – now there’s a guy you could easily send away as just an ex. Hell, he’s actually been complimentary of you, Marty. You’re on your way to making him an enemy, instead.

    Bottom line? People perceive you have an org board, whether you do or not. You are the ED, and you have no Chaplain. And Chaplain in this new environment would include not just potential public, but ARCxen exes who could be sent away as simply exes, and not enemies; not wanting to practice the subject anymore, but willing to admit that your group is clean and deals fairly. PR area control. Not to mention a better possibility of someone coming back to the subject later. Lapsed Catholics often show back up to Confesssion. 🙂

    Peace.

  63. Marty, I take your point about a lack of overall strategy but here’s the rub – this was a chance that literally fell into our laps at the time so we took it.

    If you were fighting an enemy and you came across an unguarded airfield full of planes, what would you do?

    There was never anything beyond thought of getting this into the hands of the civil authorities and letting the wheels of justice grind – that was the goal and it looks like it may be successful.

    As I said before, it’s an opportunity to jump onto to get your point of view across. “Scientology’s” abuses are very much in the news and OSA’s not coping here at all. The senator has said he wants communication and he’s been getting more than he can cope with. He hasn’t decided the terms of reference of an inquiry yet – give suggestions.

    Otherwise any criticism, however well-intended, simply comes across as sour grapes. No offence intended, it just looks like that to anyone who doesn’t take the time to analyze all contrary comments carefully.

  64. Marty and everyone,

    Something I’d like to point out is that the C of S under DM has perpetrated such extensive abuse of its own members, both staff and public, that a great many of those who have woken up to this abuse have one hell of a lot of charge on it.

    I think this charge clouds thinking to the extent that many simply can’t differentiate between the organization and the philosophy/technology. So we get swarms of people who have been abused in one way or another by DM and his policies who are simply attacking everything having to with Scientology. The volume of their charge is such that they don’t remember the truth that first attracted them to Scn, or the wins they had on course or the releases they had in session. They either don’t remember, or else those experiences of freedom and truth are overwhelmed by the pain of the charge.

    Knowing, as we do, what BPC can do to rationality, how charge can demolish understanding, can make it easier to be tolerant of those spewing the hatred. Those who can’t or are not distinguishing between the organization and the philosophy are very misguided. But I think the generality of their charge, the fact that it targets not just the current church but the tech itself, is a measure of how much abuse has been perpetrated, and continues to be perpetuated, by the currently constituted organization.

    Perhaps, then, the best way to help people differentiate between the philosophy and the organization is to do whatever will help to as-is the charge. This forum, allowing free communication, is a big step in that direction. To the extent that the abuse people have suffered, or that they believe they have suffered, is acknowledged and accepted, and to the extent that even hateful communication is simply acknowledged as a manifestation of the bad experiences people have had, I think some of the charge will be as-issed, and some of those who are hateful will start to remember the ways that Scn has changed their lives for the better.

  65. Hey Marty, How’s the helmet holding up? If you need another I’ve got a few spare.

    I’m not sure who your audience was for this one but I hope they got the message and that posting it here was worth the flak.

    Of the ten or so that seem to have got the point you were making it seems hundreds have now lost the plot.

    I can’t help wondering if it would have been better to make your point privately.

    In any event I hope you can steer things back to the more positive discussions that used to take place here.

  66. Hi again Marty, I just wanted to post a comment about you being attacked by anonymous people on this board.
    Marty, I do hope you know that you are in part responsible for that.
    I cannot afford to openly vent my frustrations with you or anyone else defending scientology. By speaking out I still risk being disconnected by my family who are so very in scientology.
    You helped buidling the system. Now, when you´r no longer a part of the church, you defend the technology it is built upon.
    If you ever feel that you are being creamed by anonymous clowns like me, I hope you will remember that there are those that must remain so in fear of disconnection.
    Any thoughts on this?
    Also, there is a comm line you could use if you ever feel like it, that is a real email address and I check it regulary.
    Sincerely, He-man. My life would have been so much more fun if you had decided to put an end to DM´s reign much earlier.

  67. Protect and Serve

    Sir, when I first came to your blog, I’m afraid to say that the one person I hated more than anyone else was yourself.

    I’m a pretty KSW kind of guy, and to see a former IG Ethics vehemently attacking the Church, frankly made my blood boil.

    However, the more I read, the more I realized that not only what you were saying was true, but in reality you were (and are) still wearing your hat.

    Since then, I’ve done a lot of reading and researching (quite a bit of it on the dreaded internet no less!) [I’ve always been fascinated by technology, so this isn’t anything especially new in itself, but I’m sure you know what I mean). 🙂

    Much to my chagrin, I am still on lines, albeit quietly practising SCIENTOLOGY…the reasons for this are complicated, and both professional and personal, so I’d prefer not to go into them.

    Whilst you’re without a doubt, the definition of a Big Being, (I laughed so hard when “Tommy ‘big dog’ Davis” made his risible comment). Having given it a great deal of thought, I believe that − with all due respect − you are wrong on this one.

    The reason I say this, is that just as LRH never claimed that the tech was perfect, in fact he couldn’t have been more explicit about it; nor did he claim to be personally infallible.

    I’m certain that the internet was something he would have loved: the ultimate means of dissemination. Miscavige on the other hand, fears nothing more, no doubt for much the same reason: where LRH would have been disseminating truth, Miscavige has nothing but lies to offer.

    At any rate, to get to the point, the reason that I believe that this is one time you may be wrong, is that as Geir Isene has suggested, the future almost certainly lies in opensourcing the tech.

    It has to be done right for sure, but I believe that this is what will KSW, will lead to the expansion that real Scientology produces, (as more and more people are exposed to it), and suspect that it’s what LRH himself would have been doing.

    In the worst case scenario, that the Church is to all intents and purposes “taken out,”due to the worldwide antagonism COB’s so systematically created, [I’m not entirely convinced that this will happen, so I’m speaking somewhat hypothetically, but it’s self evident that major damage is going to occur, & probably sooner rather than later]. Sad as that’s gonna be for all of us who’ve invested so much time, effort, and money whilst thinking we were making it go right. What’s really important now is ensuring the sanctity of the tech.

    So yup, I’m still a “pretty KSW kind of guy.” More so now than ever in fact, because one thing you’re definitely right about, is that this is a dangerous time for BOTH the subject, and the Church. So we can’t afford to be distracted by the noise. If you shake the truth, it shines. So let’s show people the truth.

    Respectfully,
    Protect and Serve.

  68. Marty, sometimes a situation needs more reality, no matter how out-reality it is. Case gain is attainable and it’s spectacular!

    Thanks for the ack but to reiterate, the reason I won’t support the politics-makes-strange-bedfellows viewpoint on this is that it’s clear to me that the goal of some of the self-styled legionnaires is the wholesale destruction of Scientology. DM to them is just a convenient excuse to achieve their end game. These are people bearing much hate.

    Here’s one of my stable datums: outside of the 2D, the most aberrated flow on this planet is help/betrayal.

    I’d also like to echo Protect and Serve’s post; I too have come around from suspicion to see that you’re wearing your hat as IG Ethics.

    I have a question: where is DM’s physical powerbase at INT? Is it just a Group Think that they’re stuck in or does he have specific terminals who can be relied upon to do his heavy lifting?

    If he’s sent them all to the RPF and abused them all so much, I don’t see why the conintued loyalty?

    I ask this because what I never understood is why, when he marched into – say – Mayo’s office and told him he was being 86’ed, Mayo didn’t just sock him in the mouth and tell him to “puss orf” in that Kiwi accent? Same goes for all the other victims of the purges.

  69. I know many of you are upset about Mr Xenophon´s remark that Scientology hides behind ‘so called religious beliefs’. I´d like to offer an alternative thought on the WHY he is doing this.

    Many people, myself included, believe that although tax~exemption for charitable works carried out by Churches is fine, the tax~exemption for Churches itself (any church) is in fact quite undefendable. I just happen to be agnostic, and although I don´t feel strongly about this, I can´t help feeling somewhat cheated in this whole arrangement.

    Now, if you read the comments section in Australian newspapers, you will see many many people advancing this viewpoint and very strongly so.

    I think that Xenophon wants to avoid getting dragged into a debate about this more fundamental question. And I think he is aware that many other Senators can sense where this could be leading. My take on this is that his downplaying of Scientology as a religion is a tactical ploy to goad the inquiry though the Senate.

    This is pure speculation, neither is it a defense, nor very relevant, but I think it gives a reasonable alternative explanation for his motivation.

  70. There are so many folks determined to fight against the COS now, comprising a wide range of factions, as you say.

    People are searching for a leader. You, Marty, are the Middle Path leader. I guess the other folks, not of the Middle Path, were hoping you would be their leader also. It’s OK with me if you don’t choose to lead them “as they are”. It’s OK with me if you try to change their minds. I won’t ask you not to try to persuade them to your path. Personally, I agree with your path.

    Anyway, I think it may be too much to ask any one person (you) to try to encompass all efforts and to be so much for so many, a leader to all. I don’t think you intended to be elected the leader of all. Especially when portions of the “factions” attack you personally. You are human, and giving greatly beyond the normal already.

    With or without leaders, well led or ill-led, many “factions” are hurtling along their paths now. Cats have been let out of bags, hidden atrocities exposed to the light of day; there is a great deal of unstoppable momentum.

    One point of view is that various efforts are “diverting attention and energy” from your Middle Path, certainly true. Another point of view is that these efforts simplyARE WHAT THEY ARE. Regardless if we are on the same team, these actions are flanking actions, simply actions occurring at the same time, coordinated or not. The paths may be different, the beliefs opposite even, but the forces WILL NOT BE STOPPED.

    Perhaps the greatest challenge is not to be kind in the face of hate, or to mold all the efforts into one, but simply to carry on, each one in their path, and not stop and not give up.

    Like blind men describing elephants, each point of view is true for each one. Somehow all are exposing the elephant. In the middle of all these blind men are, of course, a few who say the elephant is green, or red, or made out of ice, or whatever. The forces being unleashed will not be controlled, but are creating random reactions that will ripple out in all sorts of ways. Some will help, and some won’t.

    Perhaps some ugly little untruth may help to spark a caring and important action; perhaps a deep truth may end up unwittingingly to create terrible consequences.

    I admire you, Marty, and wish you all the best for the tremendous work you are doing. Reading your blog each day gives me strength to hope for others, and to rebuild my self.

    I admire others also who, regardless of where they are in this spectrum, will not give up or compromise their reality no matter what.

    I have been informed that in negotiations, it is very important not to emphasize differences, but to spend time dwelling on points of agreement. Therefore I hope to propose that every person on this blog MAY have common agreements as follows:

    1. David Miscavige atrocious reign of terror should be stopped.

    2. People should not be abused.

    3. Laws (of differing countries applying to each) do apply to many situations in regard to the whole situation.

    4. People should be free to choose their beliefs without fear.

    It’s not a matter of whether the best man will win – I think it is most important that the WORST MAN SHOULD LOSE. That man is David Miscavige, who has brutally wielded a corrupt power over many for too long, in the name of religion and hope.

    We may not share beliefs, or even have the same friends, but, by God, I bet we do have the same enemy.

    • O.O. Amazing, I was just thinking how desperately I need an O/O just about now. Thanks for this. It is very well communicated. And I wholeheartedly agree on your four points.

  71. “The snide references to “so called religion” and attacks on the efficacy of the tech are built in mannas for Miscavige. He can position the entire matter as an over zealous attack upon a recognized religion.”

    OSA tries to equate the two in this article.

    “There’s something of a campaign being pursued against our church.

    There is a relatively small group of ex-members of the church who interact online in conjunction with Anonymous, which could be fairly described as a hate group.

    These people hacked into and brought down the church’s websites for 12 days at the beginning of 2008 and more recently have gained Senator Xenophon’s ear. They have calculatedly lobbied him and they hit the jackpot on Tuesday night.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/church-of-scientology-were-being-vilified-20091120-ip8c.html

  72. Senator Xenophon expressed his views under Parliamentary privilege, which means that he cannot be legal held accountable for his comments.

    The Prime minister took a more cautious approach as he has to consider a broader aspect, i.e. the rights of individuals and the actions of civil rights groups.

    As the line between the actions of DM and his minions and the technology can get easily blurred in these scenarios I wrote to the Senator and the PM on the subject of separating out the difference. A copy, in the form of a press release was issued by the IFA and can be read here:

    http://www.prlog.org/10419074-scientology-church-vs-scientology-freezone.html

  73. It struck me last night that Senator Xenophon and some of the Independent Scientologists may actually be in agreement. What if the Senator had said “The Church of Scientology Inc. is not a religion, it is a criminal organisation…” ?

    As I understand it, the religion is the set of beliefs/philosophy, not the legal entity or structure. The corporations are changeable. They either promote the goals of the religion or they don’t.

    I understood Marty and commentors on this blog to have been saying that the corporations (organisation) being run by Miscavige IS NOT SCIENTOLOGY.

    Xenophon was talking about the organisation.

    • Heather: Well, he had better make the distinction far more clear or he won’t get anywhere. It may be too late, however, seeing how his star witness is behaving during his fifteen minutes of fame bid. If you really want to see justice done, hear me, don’t react to me. I am not attacking you.

  74. I’m from Oz Marty and when the senator spoke and the church responded I thought “bet I get an email about supporting the cause and what energy ($) can you flow”.

    Sure enough, the next day there it was in my inbox…..delete…

  75. My God Marty,

    How can you handle answering all the above comments?

    Seriously man, you have an incredible patience and your Trs must be really good.

    Add on top of if, the church PI’s, the fact that you have to watch your back from OSA and litigation, Tv’s calling you for interviews, etc.

    You lead an interesting life…

    Paolo

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