Inquiry of Oz

Below is a story that was published in today’s Sydney Morning Herald.  I am interested in your views as to whether you think this helps steer  things into better focus, or whether it simply exacerbates a wholly negative situation.  I have no strong view one way or the other, so I am  interested in other viewpoints.

Intimidating and violent: defector
Date: December 02 2009
A former Scientology leader says bullying is widespread in the church, writes investigations reporter Nick O’Malley.

Coerced abortion, violence, intimidation and demands for ever greater ”donations” have become unofficial Church of Scientology policy, beginning at its Florida head office and leaching around the world, the church’s most senior defector has said.

Marty Rathbun, who until 2004 was the church’s second-most powerful man, answering only to the present leader, David Miscavige, said the church leadership was obsessed with destroying dissent and increasing revenue at any cost, the NSW Greens MP John Kaye told Parliament last week.

”It is all about image and money now. It is power, money and image, and it is a direct reflection of Miscavige’s personality. It is flowing down from the top,” Mr Rathbun said, according to Dr Kaye.

Mr Rathbun was one of four senior executives of the Church of Scientology to defect since 2004 and provide information to the St Petersburg Times in Florida, where the church is based.

Mr Rathbun, who still believes in the practice of Scientology and the teachings of its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, said many of the allegations detailed in letters written by former Australian church members directly reflect unwritten church policies, Dr Kaye said.

Dr Kaye’s speech follows the tabling in Federal Parliament of those letters by Senator Nick Xenophon. They accuse the church of bullying and intimidating its members, of denying access to medical treatment and of demanding that members cover up crimes.

The church’s Australian president, Vicki Dunstan, denies the claims and has accused Senator Xenophon of abusing parliamentary privilege. She says the allegations have been invented by disgruntled ”apostates”.

But according to Dr Kaye, Mr Rathbun said: ”The common big three things that they [the Australian complainants] are hitting on are the craziness around what is imposed on the families, including the encouragement of abortion, the incredible commercial emphasis on getting money by any means necessary and the heavy-handed tactics used to silence dissent.”

Mr Rathbun said the church had sought to bully members of the Sea Organisation – Scientology’s 8000-strong international leadership group, loosely comparable to a priesthood – into having abortions when Mr Miscavige banned anyone in the group from having children in about 1986, shortly after Hubbard’s death. Members of the Sea Org, as it is known, symbolically sign billion-year employment contracts.

”But accidents occur and people got pregnant,” Dr Kaye reported Mr Rathbun as saying.

”The answer to that became, you know, people began to encourage people to have abortions …

”I know at International Base [the church’s head office in Florida] in the late 1980s and early ’90s, it was a pretty regular practice that [pregnant] people were told, ‘do you want to let mankind down?’ ”

Mr Miscavige thought Sea Org members would be easier to control and better able to devote long hours to fund-raising if they had no children, Mr Rathbun said, according to Dr Kaye.

Mr Rathbun also traces the culture of physical violence and intimidation raised in some of the Xenophon allegations to Mr Miscavige, Dr Kaye told Parliament. ”In about 2000 he got more and more uncontrolled physically and was beating people regularly and assigning more and more tortuous punishments,” Mr Rathbun says.

”It got to the point where it was acceptable up there, and I think it rolled down to the other churches … I received reports that it was happening at the continental bases like Australia and England and South Africa, and it became part of church culture.”

Mr Rathbun even admits to assaulting Mike Rinder, the organisation’s Australian-born head of communications, who also defected.

”It became a culture. I am no angel, I participated. On two occasions I beat Mike up. You know, it was a fight. It wasn’t like a smackdown, you know, where Miscavige comes in and you can’t do anything. He fought back but I am a bigger guy and it is something that I regretted.”

Mike Rinder declined to be interviewed for this story. However, in previous public statements he has confirmed the story.

According to Dr Kaye, Mr Rathbun said the church had become ever more obsessed with raising money.

He estimates that when he left the organisation in 2004 the church had a ”war chest” of about $750 million set aside to fight off attacks from legislators or media organisations.

”A lot of people are under so much pressure to increase the sums of their donations that they took huge risks in business or in finance so a lot of people are having personal catastrophes now. Loans are being called in, values of things they invest in have crashed,” Dr Kaye reported Mr Rathbun as saying.

It had become common practice to demand employees work 70 or 80 hours a week for as little as $50 pay.

According to Dr Kaye, Mr Rathbun said the church used various methods to silence dissent in its flock.

”One is disconnection from family,” he explains. ”If I declare you a ‘suppressive person’, if I expel you, you are never going to be able to talk to your family again.

”Two is your business career, because you lose your network.

”And three is, you are never ever going to be able to get to the holy grail in Scientology and reach spiritual enlightenment because you are expelled. That is three big clubs, and they are being used, increasingly, to extract ever larger and larger sums from people. I don’t know what happened in Australia, but I am telling you that it would have stemmed from the phenomenon I observed. It is consistent with that and it has rolled down from the top.”

Ms Dunstan denies Mr Rathbun’s accusations, describing him as a bitter liar with an axe to grind ever since he was dismissed from the church for ”gross breach of duties”.

Dr Kaye called on the two main parties to support Senator Xenophon’s call for an inquiry into the church.

”These explosive revelations underline the urgency of investigating the operations of the Church of Scientology in Australia. It is possible that recognising the organisation as a religion was a grave mistake that has granted legitimacy to a cult that bullies, intimidate and exploits,” he said.

”There is a growing case for comprehensive examination not only of the church leadership in Australia but also of the church itself as a religion.”
Intimidating and violent: defector
Date: December 02 2009




96 responses to “Inquiry of Oz

  1. Thanks for posting this article Marty. I think it is pretty straight forward and accurate.

    As far as challenging Scientology as a religion, we both know that is not a winning formula.

    But anything that points out the abuses and the violations of human rights and the law is a positive and puts increased pressure on DM.

    If they focuse on the abuses, which I think is what is being done here, that can be a winning formula for change.

    I will bet that DM has already lightened up many of his abusive tactics against staff for the time being which is a positive for those staff on normally on the recieving end.

  2. I really appreciate you speaking up about it, Marty.

    I found the way you crystallized the abuses into three “clubs” (destruction of the family, pressure leading to financial distress, and suppression of dissent) to be very useful.

    I suspect that the first people to grow tired of the subject matter will be those former scientologists and independent scientologists who really desire to “move on”. Unfortunately, society will lag behind considerably and there will be a degree of repetition required in order for the truth properly to permeate where it needs to go.

    So, I hope none of you is disheartened when stories of abuse are told. We’re still at an early stage in lancing the boil, so to speak. But healing will happen and there will be a time when this will be history.

    • Heather,
      You are absolutely correct on the societal lag. We call that a communication lag, and it can be a while before a recognition of the communication sent is gotten to the sendee. Sometimes it takes a repeat, we call that ‘TR3`.

      Your insight is wonderful.

  3. I think that this is absolutely the correct direction. They are investigating the actual crimes now, and police and law enforcement agencies are now involved, with the ability to actually get something done for a change.

    This is the only way that the abuses of the Church of Scientology would have ever been resolved. Accusing people of off-policy actions, squirreling the tech, etc. was always just so much hot air.

    Scientologists exist within a society of laws. And when those laws are broken, the management of Scientology must learn that, just like Mary Sue and 11 others in the late 1970’s, they will go to jail.

    The fatal flaw in Scientology, the missing teaching that LRH never confronted, was POWER and its corrupting influence on human beings. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    There must be checks on the power of Church managers. They must answer to the rights of Scientologists.

    • Yes but..

      You say they are investigating actual crimes now, yet what I read does not list time form place and event, but generalized accusations; “forced abortions”, etc.

      If crimes have been committed, why are law enforcement agencies and prosecutors NOT able to apply the laws of society?

      Politicians grandstanding have the feel at least of witch hunts.

      Perhaps they should investigate why the law enforcement agencies have not done thier job?

      While the above article seems to be in line with what I know about the current failing culture of the Church, it reads as sensationalism in support of a preexisting conclusion rather than a rational call for solution.


      • Dave,

        Actual crimes have been listed and details given to the police. This includes forced abortions. If you want more details, I suggest you visit ESMB (that’s if you can confront a ‘natter board’ with all the ‘nattering’ that goes on there). 😉

        As to why the law enforcement agencies haven’t been doing their jobs, perhaps this could be down to the victims being unwilling to speak out for fear of ‘damaging their religion’ or having been shuddered into silence by the bully-boys of OSA?

        I have faith in the Aussie sense of fair play and believe that any inquiry will be conducted fairly and properly. But, if you have any concerns, I’m sure you will be able to submit evidence if you so wish.


      • Say what?

        This is only the beginning of investigations by the police and parliament. They are chartered to figure out the time, form, place and event.

        In other words, it’s not a bullshit Scientology Comm Ev.

      • Eldon,
        I’ve a question: how many comm-evs have you actually been on, or an interested party to?

      • “In other words, it’s not a bullshit Scientology Comm Ev.”

        So are you saying that evidence should really have no part in this so called investigation that you say you support?

        Nor should time. place, form and event, obviously to your rebuttal to an earlier poster.

        Do you suggest they do what other Government inquiries tend to do and just make up the “facts” as they go along?

      • Dave, this is actually a reply to people who took umbrage with my reference to “bullshit Scientology comm evs.”

        I have no doubt that some fair ones took place before DM took over, but I’ve heard and read about too many that were entirely corrupt and personally motivated.

        They are run like military tribunals, not jury trials. The “convening authority” can accept, change or ignore the recommendations and decide whatever. Right? So yeah, in terms of conventional jurisprudence, they’re bullshit.

        The “convening authority” can even call a comm ev on individual committee members who don’t toe the line and do as directed. Right?

        Eeeeek! So glad I left that bullshit environment nearly 30 years ago before it got totally insane. Good luck with your own deprogramming folks, but it might take a bit longer.

    • Allan (Alanzo),
      If you happened to have missed the philosophical data on power that is in the subject of Scientology, that is too bad. I`m sure if you persist you`ll find it. It`s definately there mate.

      Other than that, yes, this article shows up the right target, the violation of actual Scientology by DM and his pernicious influence.

      • Kevin Bloody Mackey


        Why are you so regularly snide?

        I think you’ll find Alanzo’s understanding is based on the empirical evidence before him.

        What happened in the CofS that enabled DM to do what he did was an inherent flaw in the structure. I will happen again as Hubbard never solved the problem of succession to a ‘benign monarchy’

      • Bloody,
        I think you missed the point, there is an absence of looking on Allan’s part, or maybe just seeing.

        ‘Empirical’ evidence would involve viewing all that is there. Since he missed the clearly stated data he’s complaining is absent, how ’empirical’ can his viewing be?

        That you iterate his statement isn’t empirical evidence either.

        Lastly, what happened in the CofS with DM is very clearly delineated on the Scn Cult site in the collection of articles there. There was and apparently is coming back soon, another site;friends of lrh, that had an evaluation of DM’s actions relative to the tech delivery, entitled ‘What Happened to Training’.

        That provided a cogent look and the means to a handling.

        Allan’s hypothesis is that it is an absence of the ‘teaching’ of power in Scn that is the root of the trouble with DM’s Mythscavology. He then quotes the dictum on power corrupting. I’m assuming that this is the missing piece of Scn. Well, how missing could it be if it’s been around since the mid 19th century!? Aside from that, I fail to see how this dictum provides any insight into DM’s mechanics that would resolve the scene. I find T Paine’s ‘Mechanisms of Miscavige’ much more insightful and what’s more important, this essay actually provides some means to resolution. I guess T Paine didn’t realize that the answers were ‘missing’ and so avoided Allan’s so-called ‘fatal flaw’.

  4. Well, it’s the same ol’, same ol’, isn’t it?

    I mean, what’s going to happen in Australia from all of this is that there is going to be a ban on Scientology just like there was in the 60’s. There is no “press” or any other guidance headed in the direction of cutting off the ban or making it so that the leadership goes but Scientology stays. The long and the short is that Scientology will be done is Aussie-Land and that is no good. I mean, where are the Scn parishoners going to go? To the Hari Krishnas?

    Marty, we need to get some sort of direction going here. I get that the whole world knows that the “experts in the mind” have a leader that is insane and is doing insane things. This is widely disseminated. But now what? I feel like this is a Bolivar situation: The playing field is leveled but no one leading us out into the sunlight.

    I think that the baby is slowly going out with the bathwater, is what I think. But I’m just sayin’.

    • PS,
      Unfortunately, there is a definite need for quninine to cure the malaria. It tastes really, really bad, but it cures malaria.

      It is absolutely impossible to `ban`ideas, they have ironclad protection. That`s Scientology.

    • Scientologists who wish to continue practicing Scientology are first going to have to rediscover which Scientology they want to practice. What era do you consider the “golden age?” Where do you draw the line and say everything before this line is correct and after it is corrupt?

      I believe the Church as we know it will not survive. The SO will, hopefully, be disbanded and it’s policies abandoned. The practice of Scientology will continue as a grass roots movement, with different groups taking different parts of the tech and using it as they understand it.

      Centralized power tends to run amok and CofS is no exception.

  5. Marty, I think this article does an excellent job of summarizing the situation. It comes across as factual. Comparing it to your blog, it appears the news reporters were accurate in representing your statements. In my opinion the more light shown on the situation, the better.

  6. As you can imagine, I have some rather strong feelings about this. What is happening in Oz is that individuals who were formerly associated with Corporate Scientology are renouncing their silence over matters of ethical import, and re-asserting their responsibility for their lives and their futures. The exodus there was quite spectacular earlier this year, when over 200 peolpe left the church, and began speaking out about thier experiences. The catalyst for this appears to have been the Anon protests (which did impinge and get people to start looking) and ESMB, where a number of them have surfaced and told their stories. Stories of 15 years on Solo Nots. Regging for “Basic Book packages for Libraries” which never showed up in any libraries. Stories of child endangerment, dis-connection, and injustice.

    As LRH points out “Honest is the road to Sanity.” So this thaw of silence and outpouring of truth is, to me a very necessary step to establishing some sanity for all concerned.
    Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be.
    “The world begins with TRO.”

    Needless to say, with the establishment of some truth, there has been a backlash to the suppressive influences involved, resulting in a call for investigation in to the activities of corporate scientology. Be that as it may, I want to thank you Marty for saying what you know to be true. That is really all that is being asked of anyone, Miscavoligist, Scientologist, Independant, or inhabitant of this planet.

    As you can imagine, there is still a lot of BPC to clean up. But the Aussies are a spirit unto themselves some times, and that is something I stand in awe of.


  7. In my opinion, this journalist has cut right to the chase, focusing on the abuses and their consequences. If journalists throughout the world wrote this clearly and stayed on the subject of abuses that need to be addressed, instead of sweeping and alarming statements, we’d have the support of the many well-intended individuals in positions of legal and governmental power placing a demand on the CofS leadership to reform. That has to happen first and foremost or the staffs of the C of S will continue to be too PTS to be rational.

  8. Yes, I read both of the stories. Looks as though the Australian investigation is moving along. Do you still think Senator Xenophon is overreaching?

  9. Good on you Marty. I’m glad to see you aren’t going to bad mouth some of these Aussies stepping forward – they are trying to do the right thing in their own way (just as you are) and they need support not abuse. I’m very pleasantly surprised by this. They’ve been through awful things, and so have you, and there needs to be more team work on all fronts to stop the abuse.

    You tried to dismiss their witness Aaron Tweddell/ Saxton but he isn’t playing the victim either, he’s fully admitting that he was also made to be an abuser. Which is sad seeing as though they lured him into the Sea Org at 15 right after his father’s suicide – talk about evil manipulation of the venerable. They took a kid and tried to turn him into a robot. That right there is they type of abuse that needs to stop, parents should not be signing over custody of 15 year olds to the SO.

  10. I don’t see how enticing the government of Australia to go after the churches out there in any way forwards the goal of removing COB. I think it would just cause everyone to circle the wagons even harder while making life hell for the remaining class V org staff, who are doing the best they can.

    What is the larger strategy here? As someone who still believes in the tech, I’m uncomfortable with the “reform” movement allying itself with real SPs in government and elsewhere who what to limit religious freedom. In fact, I would suggest that using government to quash the existing corrupt church might be incredibly counter-productive in the long run. Just look at how the media and the State of Texas treated those FLDS folks. They also had corrupt leadership but otherwise had done nothing wrong other than being in a wacky fringe religion with an unusual lifestyle.

    I think anyone who has done much studying in Scientology learns quickly that Ron didn’t really trust governments and the media. So when a high-ranking leader leaves and immediately starts “telling-all” to the media, and encourages the government to investigate, it makes that person look like a squirrel to the average scientologist. That’s just my opinion but it may have some bearing on why this message doesn’t get through to those who are still involved.

    • As an old timer staff I understand what you mean. But just take a look: we are no more in Ron’s times, and what Marty did seems to me the only possible way to tell scientologists what’s really happening. We have, as scientologists, the responsibility of telling All of the truth, and I see more & more “wogs” on this website starting to be interested in what scientology really is. That’s a big win in a sea of entheta.

    • OEC/FEBC, your concerns are well-founded but there is a bigger picture here now. The CofS under DM isn’t just not working, it is doomed. The man himself will hang on to the bitter end; there will be no quiet revolution while he is at the helm, he will block any and all attempts to get him to go quietly. He is up to his neck in his own doo-dah and knows it. The longer this untenable situation goes on, the more likely it becomes that governements across the world will use it as an excuse to ban scientology outright whereby any practice becomes an underground activity at best. Unpalatable-seeming medicine now that starts flushing out the sickness is far better than the intervention scenario. Right now we independents and the reason within can have a big say in the coming debate. Our voices could be suppressed later however. This action in Oz and others that will follow are actually an opportunity for us to get our message across. The Oz PM is taking a cautious approach to the matter and will allow reasoned arguments I believe. But right now the brand Scientology is severely damaged; not yet irrepairably, but almost. The larger strategy you ask, is IMHO organic growth of this movement together with some form of the Joe Howard paradigm

    • OEC/FEBC,
      You forgot to mention the ‘explosive expansion’ of Ideal Orgs is being endangered by this as well.

    • It seems to me that the Corporate Miscavology that has hijacked the Scientology technology is more in cahoots with suppressive aspects sometimes associated with government.

      It would not surprise me if part of the Oz Regime does not involve the tactic of making “parishioner” confessional information available to Big Brother in exchange for favors.

      The LRH vs. government is old news, old condition, Past, changed.

      The think that “government is bad” and “media is bad” is a generality.

      There may have been cause, just cause, for LRH to create procedures with which to handle governments and media not worthy of trust …but it is no longer the proper condition to pit Scientologists and government/media as a n Us vs. Them scenario.

      We are part of a Society. Isn’t that the whole point? IMHO, a fundmental systemic toxin within the Organized Corporatized Brand is disconnection, which happens in a more insidious and fundamental than the inevitable “ethics cycles” that come crashing down on people once they are “in.” And that disconnection to which I refer is the cult type thinking that once you’re “in” (a member) all others are lesser than.

      For one thing — “generalities” do not exist. The media is now the internet age, and the planet is getting its Grade O Release…it’s Communication Rundown.

      Also note, it is not accurate that Miscavology does not use government or media. Celebrity Center uses the media to hawk services. It uses celebrities (How many actors sign up for courses thinking they are going to be the next John Travolta or Tom Cruise)?

      It’s important to remember not to think in generalities…about government and media, about genders, religions, races. Any generality is a “not there” and can’t be addressed!

      Let’s communicate, world. Let’s have this conversation. There is no Org Elitism. There is no “Us vs. Them”

      A few bad apples don’t a stinking orchard make.

      What can be adadressed is the distinction between Differences and Similarities…it is of utmost important to hold *individuals* accountable.

      I support any individual who is acting to create a more fair, just, elevated, peaceful and productive society.

      We can help one another to that end.

      It’s easy to recognize the blanket “haters”. Keep it specific and keep it simple.

      And let’s all keep our eye on the mountain and get delivery happening! It is so much fun and too cool not to!! 🙂

      • VeriV,

        I disagree to be suspicious of the mainstream media and the Government is not the same thing as assuming they are all bad, nor is it a “generality”.

        Do you think the vested interests behind media and Government have suddenly taken a hiatus of some kind?

        I’m sorry but I find this shift towards a total surveillance state and these endless ‘peace keeping’ operations rather unconvincing. Never mind the constant erosion of our Liberties in general.

        That said. Tell me how weakening the First Amendment is supposed to help our cause?

        There is another individual who holds this Panglossian view of Government and that is the current “leader” of the Church of Scientology, who said back in 1993 that the ‘Government is our friend’. Honestly I had to restrain myself from vomiting right there.

        Government is not a friend to anyone. It is force and power represented by people with guns who now under the Patriot Act can now search your home without a warrant, find out what subversive books you are reading and how much money you have in your bank account with what are called “National Security Letters”.

        So much for the Fourth.

        The only one the Government hasn’t constantly violated is the Third regarding billeting of soldiers but I’m sure they’ll get around to it eventually.

        Sure the internet is nice but it won’t be much good after it has been censored and the only news allowed is that which is Government approved.

        How are you going to “keep our eye on the mountain and get delivery happening” when all the means to do so are out lawed?

    • “I’m uncomfortable with the “reform” movement allying itself with real SPs in government ”

      Yes!! Kinda like when the alliance was made with the US tax collection agency (SP group per many LRH references) back in the day. That still causes discomfort!

    • The “unusual lifestyle” of the FLDS includes doling out underage girls to older men while kicking out the teenage boys who might compete for them. Just go read the readily available articles about the cult.

  11. Barry Van Sickle

    Hi Marty,

    This seems like a positive development and should help in the ongoing efforts to bring the current Church of Scientology into compliance with the laws of Australia and the U.S.

    It is not clear whether you were the source of the comparison of the Sea Org to the priesthood, but that comparison seems –well–“ambitious” , as the soccer announcers describe a shot that was ill-considered.

    My wife is Catholic and occasionally I accompany her to mass and church social events. Recently, her church handed out the year end financial report for all to see.

    This smallish Catholic church pays its priests over $400,000 a year in salary plus substantial benefits. The full time staff are well paid and work regular hours.

    I have spoken with a few former Sea Org members. It was initially very surprising to learn that many Sea Org members know relatively little about Scientiology. Most are unaware of the upper levels and advanced technologies. Most are so busy working 14 hour days they get no real chance to study or reflect.

    Of course, a priest well knows all of the teachings of his church. As do the parishioners.

    The differences between the life and pay of a real priest and the life and pay of the typical Sea Org member are huge and relatively obvious upon honest reflection.

    It matters little to the person working under Sea Org conditions whether they are being treated under LRH policy or DM policy, however, I have seen early LRH writings where he writes about making money and having a finance officer so that staff could be well paid. Obviously, if that was the policy years ago, it has been lost in the new church culture you well describe.

    Perhaps in your efforts to increase awareness of how DM has corrupted the practice of Scientolgy , you could share your thoughts on how the low level Sea Org member has suffered from DM’s mamagement.

    Thanks for what you do.

  12. There is good and bad in the article. The good aspect is they let your words drive the story and there is minimal editorializing. The bad is the end quote about calling into question whether or not Scientology is a religion. I think especially in the Austrailia case we have to be careful because while some of these people (the Senator for example) can help to expose DM it is my belief that their goals go much farther and to a dark place.

  13. @TS I think Marty and the independents need to establish some sort of org in Australia to fill the coming void.

  14. This is an excellent article. It is only one sentence too long, however.

    • ”There is a growing case for comprehensive examination not only of the church leadership in Australia but also of the church itself as a religion.”

      Yes, sort of my feelings. When governments start to involve themselves in allowing or disallowing what is proper thought, as passing judgement on a particular belief system (religion), we have come into a dangerous situation for freedom in general.

  15. This follows a successful formula: establish a talking point and drive it across every communication channel available. The idea becomes accepted and then reality. Most people are out reality on what is happening in and with the Church of Scientology. Changing that perception will change the Church. Current members become increasingly exposed to the idea and more likely to withdraw their resources, thus weakening Miscavology’s army of the mislead and benighted.

  16. I concur with all the posters who applaud Marty’s excellent interview.

    The concern that IF scientology is banned in Australia then scientologist will have no where to go is an unnecessary concern.

    Individuals who were truly interested in their own and others spiritual growth, will either find field auditors and form independent groups OR find other spiritual paths.

    LRH never claimed to have a monopoly on truth. There are many wonderful wisdom traditions in the world.

    So — I think this concern is frankly a red herring.
    Unless someone was involved JUST to be in POWER in which case, it’s better for all that they leave – then have some faith in the basic goodness of man to continue to seek his/her spiritual freedom.


  17. It may be helpful to see and\or hear from the source the tone and context of this request for an inquiry.

    You can do so here:

    The following is how the Australian Senator closed his speech. I do not find it inappropriate.

    “Do we really want to be funding an organisation that turns supporters into victims in its pursuit of power and wealth? That is why I am calling for a Senate inquiry into this organisation and its tax-exempt status. In the past Scientology has claimed that those who question their organisation are attacking the group’s religious freedom. It is twisted logic, to say the least. Religious freedom did not mean the Catholic or Anglican Churches were not held accountable for crimes and abuses committed by their priests, nuns and officials—albeit belatedly. Ultimately, this is not about religious freedom.

    In Australia there are no limits on what you can believe. But there are limits on how you can behave. It is called the law, and no-one is above it.”

  18. Marty,

    Thank you for this post which you made it very clear that there is a difference between Scientology and the organized church of Scientolog run by DM. That is awesome!

    Since the most highly trained auditors are speaking out and are available to help people to have spiritual freedom, I don’t think investigating the current CoS by legal forces would create any problem.

    We all know that there is no way in hell that those Scientologists on lines are receiving pure LRH Tech with DM (SP) running the entire church, they are better off joining the Independent Scientologists and get the true tech and total Freedom.
    Right now in the CoS ethics is completely out, therefore the tech and admin is fully out too.

    Thank you for putting the truth out.

  19. Excellent article Marty. I don’t think it overstates the case at all.

    When I first began speaking out several years ago I got taken to task by several friends who still considered themselves Scientologists although they had left the Church. They were afraid that negative revelations about the Church of Scientology could reflect negatively on the subject of Scientology.

    My own view is that the cow has already left that barn. The reputation of Scientology, the subject, has already been trashed by the antics of DM and current Church management, going back decades. The way to restore any respect is not further secrecy or suppression of information, but complete transparency and openness.

    If the Church were to admit wrongdoing and institute real reform (not lip service), they could, even at this late date, begin to build respect. But I do not believe that will ever happen simply because Miscavige is incapable of self-inspection or any admission of wrongdoing.

    And one has to forgive media or government if they question whether Scientology deserves its religious status or not – look at the state of the current Church. I myself question whether that corrupt Church deserves the status of a religion.

    Transparency and openness is the only way out. If the general public, media and governments see Scientologists standing up and speaking out in outrage, that will go a long way in restoring some measure of public respect.

    • Jeff states: “If the Church were to admit wrongdoing and institute real reform (not lip service), they could, even at this late date, begin to build respect. But I do not believe that will ever happen simply because Miscavige is incapable of self-inspection or any admission of wrongdoing.”‘

      In other words, the psychopathic little bastard is just gonna have to be burned at the stake, right? Well, figuratively at least.

      After some reflection, I’d say that’s correct. No kidding. Or maybe Davey will commit suicide in the bunker. How convenient and considerate of his victims if he did.

    • crashing upwards

      I agree with you Fishdaddy. As its totalitarian it is not able to self-inspect, self-correct. The baby is being thrown out with the bathwater. The media will not differentiate.

      Those thousands of SO members there now are just as incapable to effecting change as we were when we were inside. They cannot see the higher ground. Their focus is week to week anyway, as ours was. And you cannot put on old head on young shoulders.
      So the change that will come, that must come, will be by and through the field of independents expanding and offering the tech. That will dry up the resources, both in terms of income and staff, that the official church must have to maintain its monopoly and bullying. And at that point, when the game has changed, then maybee all parties will find some common ground to co-exist for the good of all.

    • “The way to restore any respect is not further secrecy or suppression of information, but complete transparency and openness. ”

      ^^^ Fully agree!

  20. I share the concern with other posters here who fear that in taking down DM that the subject itself will be taken down as well. The solution is to very vigilant in making sure that those in charge of the investigations are aware that the abuses are coming from DM and not LRH.

    LRH specifically said that the laws of the land must be respected. That one datum is senior to any other policies that DM or others can cite to justify their abuses.

    Let’s face facts, when someone is out-ethics and is not acting to get their ethics in then the wider society acts to get them in. That’s called justice.

    That is what is happening with the church today. Many individuals from different areas are acting to get the church’s ethics in. Think about the Anonymous protests and the court decision in France. You couldn’t find two more disparate groups, yet they are both doing what they think is necessary to get the church’s ethics in.

    And the Who behind the out-ethics is David Miscavige. I guarantee you that if Marc Yager were running the church, or Guillaume Lesevre or Norman Starkey or Heber Jentzsch or various others were running the church, none of this, and I mean NONE of this, would be going on.

    These other people may be this, that or the other thing but they haven’t been driven nuts by power and hubris.

    That said, the more that the existing abuses in the church are talked about and the more the correct target is identified the better chance there is of reform and with a minimum of collateral damage to the subject itself.

    I’m all for more of what you served up here, Marty. It’s good medicine.

  21. Marty, I was very plesaantly surprised to see this blog post. I think it is a step forward.

    For those of you worried that Scientology will lose it’s “religion” status, I think, personally that it should, as it is the religious cloaking that has made it possible for the “church” to execute some of it’s more abusive policies and cover ups.

    In my opinion, Scientology should be what it really is..a self-help group where people can attend classes if they want, get auditing if they want and improve their lives with the technology. And open sourcing it on the internet will make it readily available for all to take advantage of.

    Then whoever wants to have a Scientology group can and if they want to charge for their services and people want to pay they can. (like they do in the Freezone now I believe).

    Get rid of the Sea Org, the outdated policies, the disconnection, etc etc. Almost none of it is needed in my opinion. The important thing is that the good applicable life improving elements in Scientology be available to everyone.

    If I had my wish, this is the way it would go.

    • Sherry, that’s just what two heavyweight marketing guys proposed more than 20 years ago. From the infamous (but not libelous) 1991 Time Magazine article:

      “Shortly after Hubbard’s death the church retained Trout & Ries, a respected, Connecticut-based firm of marketing consultants, to help boost its public image. “We were brutally honest,” says Jack Trout. “We advised them to clean up their act, stop with the controversy and even to stop being a church. They didn’t want to hear that.” Instead, Scientology hired one of the country’s largest p.r. outfits, Hill and Knowlton, whose executives refuse to discuss the lucrative relationship. “Hill and Knowlton must feel that these guys are not totally off the wall,” says Trout. “Unless it’s just for the money.” One of Scientology’s main strategies is to keep advancing the tired argument that the church is being “persecuted” by antireligionists. It is supported in that position by the American Civil Liberties Union and the National Council of Churches. But in the end, money is what Scientology is all about. As long as the organization’s opponents and victims are successfully squelched, Scientology’s managers and lawyers will keep pocketing millions of dollars by helping it achieve its ends.”

  22. Marty, first I thought you did an excellent job of applying HCOPL ‘Scientology Five, Press Policy’ by giving them the facts, instead of the Glomar response or Perception Management and Damage Control accompanied by a Limited Hang out which makes Miscavige version of “Scientology” seem more like KUBARK fending off a Congressional Investigation.

    Regarding the Oz Inquisition, itself. Unlike many posters here my faith in the Government’s ability to conduct an impartial inquiry is zero.

    Both of us know what Ron would do under these circumstances and this is covered in RJ 68 and the Reform Codes that immediately preceded it.

    However expecting Miscavige to do the right thing is like expecting Porky the Pig to do aerial acrobatics.

    Miscavige will continue to assert his self righteous sanctimonious rightness and continue to call you, me and every one else who has presented him in anything but a favorable light, “liars” while the organization under his “leadership” continues to sink like the Titanic.

    The only silver lining to all of this that his deviant elite who use the organization parasitically for their own perverted objectives and the spooks that use it for cover and possible experimentation will consider their operations compromised and begin to abandon the organization like rats abandoning a sinking ship, leaving Miscavige to go down with it.

    In the end David Miscavige like Kenneth Lay will be another name that will become synonymous with patsy.

  23. I can well understand those who consider themselves Scientologists being upset at this and other similar stories. It doesn’t reflect well on Scientology the subject as most people will fail to differentiate between the subject and the organisation and tar them both with the same brush.

    I’m afraid that this is inevitable. If the abuses being perpetrated by Miscavige and co. are to be stopped, and the CoS is to be reformed, then massive external pressure will have to be applied and this includes the full force of the law.

    There have been many who have tried to bring about reforms within the CoS. Most have failed and left the organisation as a result. It is clear that Miscavige will tolerate no dissent and has ruthlessly suppressed any opposition to his tyranny. Therefore it is obvious to me that reforms cannot come from within the CoS now – they have to be driven by actions external to that organisation. And given the huge financial resources that Miscavige has at his disposal, nothing short of government inquiries, criminal investigations, legal action and extensive media coverage will get the job done.

    The first step is to make the truth known, no matter how ugly it may seem or how destructive to the reputation of Scientology it appears. Therefore, I welcome this and other stories in the media. The time for damage limitation is well past, a fire is raging in the heart of Scientology and it needs to be put out now.


  24. I think it is vital to remember, what was pointed out earlier, that each of us is responsible to a greater or lesser degree to the current scene. Whether overtly or covertly.

    There is a Tibetan saying that I love “Don’t seek others pain as the limbs of your own happiness.”

    It’s tricky since it’s so human to feel — oh good, that SOB is starting to suffer. Or, I’m glad that he lost all his money, he was always an arrogant jerk etc.

    Applying this saying isn’t easy but it keeps one honest and fearless AND better yet, keeps the eye on the proper point. Exposing the crimes, not hating the criminal.


  25. I agree with fishdaddy.

    Transparency and openness are the only way out.

  26. I read this article this morning and thought it very accurately delineated the core issues – bullet points, if you will. One of the best I have seen actually.

    Current on-lines parishioners will heed specific allegations IF they are given without rancor. Even if only silently they begin to look and question.

    The biggest problem is getting the data in front of them as they don’t search it out. For instance I am certain that most people in my area are not even aware of the St. Pete Times articles. It becomes a matter of saturation.

    Finally, this article omits any victim attitudes – an attitude which if forwarded is where most on- lines group members will no longer be willing to look.

    I would also like to comment on the earlier remarks about Aaron Saxton. I have found that his messages and statements are similar to many others but his presentation is not easy to experience. He comes out like a bull in a china closet so loses some credibility. IMO

  27. Marty – keep doing what you are doing. Do it loudly and widely. Jump on every opportunity to be heard.
    Truth is truth and on some level the message will go in regardless of whether it is ‘believed’ or not or whether it is ‘nice’.
    Some of my oldest and dearest friends are in a trap and pulling them out is a slow, arduous heart-wrenching activity. Now when I am trying to handle someone I direct them to your website.
    What you are doing IS successful so I think you need to do THAT exactly per the affluence attainment formula 🙂
    You were the rope that we (myself and a few of my friends) used to help pull ourselves out of the hole – and as OTs we were very well indoctrinated.
    In the UK there are many PTS public in the orgs who are not allowed to look at the ‘entheta’ on the internet. Get the truth out there in the media where it is unavoidable and one doesn’t have to ‘go looking for it’. That’s how you will reach the OTs that daren’t look. It is those very people we need to reach as it is they who give DM the only power he has.
    That’s my 10c worth and I feel very strongly about it because the St. Pete Times article became a defining event in my life. Kind of like reading Dianetics for the first time. I had the same reaction; ‘OH MY GOD! I’VE FOUND THE TRUTH!’
    Hope this helps

    • Thought provoking


      I agree that the media can and does work when presented correctly. With more public dissemination, Scientologists on lines will learn the truth.

      Although I have been out for over three years, I have held onto the “don’t read entheta” viewpoint. I only looked, after when my aunt (who has always supported my belief in the technology), had casually mentioned something about management getting beaten. I did it mostly to have the correct data so I could dead agent any rumors. My search immediately took me to the SP Times. I read and viewed most of the articles over the next few days. The evidence was overwhelming that there was something to this and I knew that I could no longer support the current management. As many have mentioned in this blog, Scientologists are aware that things are not as they should be.

      • Thought provoking
        I started looking at the data for exactly the same reason you did – to be able to handle any black propoganda if it came up. I knew there was coming out in the media and I knew family and friends would be asking serious questions so I needed to be ready with answers. Then I realized why I had been told not to read it! Thanks for this reply it confirms to me that talking to the media is the best way to go as it forces one to look at what is being said and confront it.

      • Thought Provoking and Elizabeth,
        Add me to the list. I was researching for Black PR handling reasons also, and it was the series in the St. Pete Times, and particularly the revelations of Marty (supported by Mike Rinder) that made the light go on in my head. I’ve already started making this data known to family and on-lines friends — good success with family, and tbd with the friends.

  28. Thanks Marty,

    My view on the matter is that the Truth will persevere. The outcome might not be predictable.

    If there are any untruths told from whatever “camps” they are in or plain exaggerations or embellishments – those things would hurt their own side and strengthen their enemies. There are some who would call those “footbullets”.

    Someone ought to tell CoS PRs that their standard Ad Hom attacks, comments and outright lies are just ludicrous at this point.

  29. Thought provoking

    Firstly, I’d like to bring to light that we as a nation have become more and more visually oriented. I found myself comparing what I was reading today to the reporting done earlier in the SP Times. Although the information being relayed was the same, I didn’t walk away from it with the same feelings.

    Admittedly, I hadn’t read the previous article from Senator Xenophon. The lack of earlier data made it appear that you, Marty, could be a disgruntled ex-member. The corraborating of events was done so scantily that it seemed you might be on a witch hunt yourself. Only after reading the Xenophon article did it start becoming clearer that this was a pattern of behavior being talked about and that you were another person who could attest to the wrongdoings. It also aired all of Scientology’s dirty laundry to the world.

    That being said, and taking into account that SP Times did a much more in depth reporting, here are the key elements that seemed missing from today’s reporting and even more so in the article from the senator. Accusations backed up by specifics as in Time, Place, Form and Event. Specific delineation that Scientology philosphy works but the current leader has altered it’s policies to the detriment of the church and parishioners. That the purpose for coming forward is to enlighten the members so that a reform can occur. All of these were very clearly communicated in the SP Times and having the video clip, being able to look at you throughout the interview completely removed the disgruntled ex-member idea. Lacking these elements leaves the reader open to accepting the negative PR coming the other direction. And I believe it is coming at the hands of the senator as much as the church.

    Ideally, we would have figured out a way of doing it without making it a BPI issue to the world, just targetting Scientologists. DM has made that an impossibility. I am wary of involving politicos, Xenophon is emphasizing a religious appeal and possible ban, appealing to the general public via their tax payments.

    Fishdaddy has expressed my opinions very well. A more ideal handling could include regaining control of the proposed inquiry by emphasizing the workability of the technology and then ensuring the source of the abuses gets delineated from the technology. The more public who state this, with their TRs fully in, the greater the possibility for salvaging the concept of Scientology as the incredible technology that it is.

    • Today on radio 2GB in Sydney, Dr John Kaye, MP – the New South Wales politician who was quoted in, and at the end of, the Sydney Morning Herald article – was interviewed about government funding of two scientology schools. He said, in part:

      “Can I just make one point here, we’re not talking about Scientology per se. That’s a set of beliefs. We’re talking about the way the church operates. We’re talking about the issues raised by Senator Xenophon and others in respect of scientology were not about the religion itself or the set of beliefs. You know, one can have one’s own opinions about various sets of beliefs that exist. There’s the issue of the inner thetan and the 40 million years ago or 40 thousand years ago the space ship landing and so on. People can have those beliefs. The question mark that’s been raised here is about the behaviour of the organisation itself. How it’s behaving, what it’sdoing, what impact it’s having on people and whether that’s an appropriate organisation to be running a school.”

  30. It seems right what is written in the article and it could help the cause.
    But, me poor soul I’m just sitting behind my computer and observing what is happening – it’s a hell of a rollercoaster – and I don’t know what will be next.
    Marty has for sure a strategy and tactical steps he ‘s following, as well as Mike Rinder (he makes himself rare).
    The problem is, I don’t know in which direction it goes. Sometimes, I have to think a lot about his posts (Marty’s)- lessons he wants to teach- as those about politics. It had a grand finale.
    Marty is in present time the person that is causing the most changes in the world of Scientology. Each blow he delivers changes so many things in C.O.S. I think they run around then and try to improve the conditions of staffs (for Pr reason).
    But it would be really helpful to know what the hell is the purpose of all that (open communication) and that we find a way to connect up worldwide with a clearly stated purpose what we would like to achieve. This could be achieved in a similar way as Wikipedia was created (thousands of people working over the Internet with a common purpose and billions of people have a profit of it).
    Other “wogs” are able to create organisations and rallye people together (green peace, anonymous, amnesty International and lots of religions).
    What is about us ?
    Are we just sheeps and looking at what Marty does and hope he’ll do it right for us ?
    Can Scientologists become a group ?
    Are we just spectators ?
    My dream is that tomorrow everything is handled, DM gets his comm. ev. I can disseminate again and continue up the bridge !
    What is the fastest, best way to achieve that ?
    Pls lets do something about it. My wife couldn’t sleep the last few days as she was so upset at the nonsense our orgs were putting on her plate. Today she meant Scientology is a dead-end road, but she loves to audit, but it is sooooo complicated to audit.
    Help !

    Have a nice day !

  31. Before I found this blog, I just thought the Church had gotten weird, with crush regging and being all about the money. I watched people being recognized with medals who were pretty much worthless when it came to getting a product because they were big donors to IAS. I just don’t share those same values so didn’t want to be a part of the group. Learning about the abuse and DM’s suppressive influence has blown so much charge for me as it explains a lot about what I experienced, not only as a staff member but as a public. The more this stuff is exposed, the more others will have their own experiences validated. What you are doing, Marty, is vital to moving scientology out of the shadow of an evil influence. Thank you…

  32. Thanks for doing that Marty. I agree with Fishdaddy’s and Heather’s views.

    The way I see it is that this is one big 3-D engram running session and there is a LOTof BPC. I believe that the postulate is there to keep the good parts of Scientology. If DM would prefer wrecking things rather than self-inspect that is not a surprise to me. Let the chips fall as they may is what I say!

  33. I pulled out of my file Issue 203, “Source”, the magazine of the Flag Land Base.

    There is a full page ad stating, “THE BEGINNING OF A NEW CIVILIZATION”

    New OT VIII


    It’s what you want.
    It’s what the planet needs.

    I know Marty is delivering, “TRUTH REVEALED” to Oz.

    I just hope more COS members take a look at this truth Marty is delivering and have a COG or two.

  34. I told my non-scn Mom a lot of my story, which is bad enough and almost as horrific as those who were at Int. Her comment after hearing it, “my God, it’s Russia in America”. She said “it’s communism”. Straight to the point, that’s my Ma. Could not have told her this stuff before due to trying to protect my Church from their own O/W’s but that “church” ceased to protect me a long time ago. Well “Church” (DM and his puppets) if you don’t want your OW’s disclosed then cease and desist those activities, as eventually people will “talk”. You cannot keep people locked in the hole forever like you do of some very big names we know of.

    To be there and communicate are the 2 greatest crimes per LRH. He also says communication is the universal solvent. Throughout history people have been punished severely for being there and communicating abuses. Like never before I now understand what a great consequence communication can be. I have been afraid to be there and communicate about these gross violations of LRH policy. I have written up stuff to RTC but my communication gets lost in the black hole, no acknowledgement or correction of RTC’s gross policy violations. Wishing to keep the peace, just kind of disappeared in to the hole myself. Not a solution. Those who are now being there and communicating – are subject to human rights abuses by being kicked out, black PR whispering campaigns, labeled some horrible thing or the other, declared, family and friends disconnecting from them, ad infinitum and it keeps me from being there and communicating , very good strategy if it works, well it is finally coming undone, thanks to some very courageous people coming forward.

    To be or not to be, that is the question? DM wishes us not to be there and communicating so he can continue his suppression of the greatest people ever who have ever lived and been willing to give their all for improvement of conditions on this planet.

  35. Concerned Citizen

    I have mixed feelings, on the one hand, there is PR Series 19. You find a safe point from which to speak and speak up. Marty speaking up on this issue is encouraging, I really hope he gets to do more than the interview because it is one of those butterfly effect things, where just the wrong witness or the smallest wrong move could send the end result way out of whack either way.

    As far as government involvement, I have the same general mistrust and uneasy feelings about it. But funny enough, it was Comrade Miscavige that prompted me to realize that this holds true only as long as one looks at government as a whole, it is a generality. Government is made of people and systems, these people are not all SPs, and many are trying to do the right thing, learning the system and using the comm. formula to address the individuals that make up that government is valid and also effective.

    LRH says if you don’t know policy you are a sitting duck, so true, if you don’t know and use the country’s policy you are sitting duck. But you have to be very careful to argue according to the system, and like Marty advised, with equanimity and also with only facts. If someone’s story does not check out, it does not matter how well intentioned he might be, it will render the motion ineffective, either prompting a ban on the whole subject, or providing cover for the church to cry, “Religious prejudice”

    Hawkins, said:
    “My own view is that the cow has already left that barn. The reputation of Scientology, the subject, has already been trashed by the antics of DM and current Church management, going back decades. The way to restore any respect is not further secrecy or suppression of information, but complete transparency and openness.
    If the Church were to admit wrongdoing and institute real reform (not lip service), they could, even at this late date, begin to build respect. But I do not believe that will ever happen simply because Miscavige is incapable of self-inspection or any admission of wrongdoing”
    I second that, this motion is ongoing, like it or not, the inherent risks are there and we need to be cause and turn it to our advantage to reform the Church and retain the philosophy, I think that the only way to effectively preserve the tech is to keep it alive ourselves, a web site like old auditor’s is great, it is all good news, wins and what Scientology has done for him and others, it is real data, and it fills in the void. The Church has long argued that it is not secretive, yet people are driven away and the books are not really available, if they have access to sites like it and like Geir proposes, even the actual original works can be found on the net, I think we could pretty much circumvent the efforts to ban the philosophy and it’s ethical practice, because thousands could for themselves see the difference between what they have come to hate and the actual subject.

  36. @ Joe Howard

    Thanks Joe, you said it better than I did. The focus factor is what is needed. General public already A=A enough and we need to focus their attention to DM and not Scientology.

    You see LRH wants Scientology to survive. He wants orgs to survive. He alreay pointed out to us that we need to open and expand orgs in order to clear the planet.

    I read a lot of apathy in posts from folks on this blog. An almost “Kismet” attitude. Sorry folks but I am more military minded. I know you cannot take a position or overcome an advisary with just good natter and finger pointing. SPs have to be TAKEN OUT. Adolf didn’t get taken out until the Russians were within spitting distance. Millions died before he was gone.

    So what is our battlefield going to look like in the aftermath? Everyone studying Scientology on the internet – only we can’t call it that now because the US government banned it. We cannot practice it because it was found criminal. We can only read some books that have been posted from Belieze because they allow it.

    And Jim Logan – I did have Malaria and I handled it with Scientology. And no, you cannot ban ideas, but you can sure block other people from learning them. That’s my concern – we have Scn, but my neighbor doesn’t.

    If you think a ban is no big thing, ask the old timers in Oz what is was like. I did and they were not happy about it. Not at all.

  37. They maybe a “religion” but they definitely shouldn’t be exempt from taxation. They don’t work for the public good as outlined in this great article.

  38. I am responding having been asked your opinion, and without having read anyone else’s.

    My opinion is that this article clearly defines the [vitally important] clarification that your (Marty’s) opinion’s and statements are clearly directed toward the current mis-leader — I mean “leader” of the Church of Scn and that he (Misc) is, in his actions, go against that of the our Church’s Founder, LRH.
    And if MP John Kaye is quoting you accurately, then I am of the view that this is a very good article in that it forwards the exact message we need and want to get across — it isn’t the Church or its Founder or Policies we object (the contrary), it is the MISDEEDS AND OFF -SOURCENESS AND OUT-KSW OF MISCAVOLOGY that we are speaking about.

    And in terms of investigating the Church’s validity as a Church, although I cringe on that, I do feel the statement is beneficial in that it will keep the heat on the Miscavology dupes/clan and will pressure them.

    Those are my thots — having not read any others!

  39. As someone who has been in the thick of the Oz inquiry from the beginning, let me just reiterate this:

    The terms of reference for an inquiry have not been finalized and YOUR suggestions will help work out what those terms are.

    Write YOUR stories to Senator X, Dr Kaye, and every other politician you can think of if you like. Tell them the good and the bad YOU have experienced and what YOU have seen others experience.

    If you wish to ensure Scientology is separated from Miscavology, YOU have to communicate.

    What Marty has done is excellent because it just puts data on the table for the police and the politicians to see.

    That is exactly what we (the Oz Seven) did – we put exact time, place, form and event down for Senator X who then took out names etc. so that the victims of abuses weren’t identified.

    This is what is needed. If you are concerned about the way this is heading, do what Marty did and contribute YOUR story to the mix with YOUR take on where it should go.

    For a number of reasons I personally don’t want the Inquiry to go looking into the beliefs and practices of Scientology but just the fascistic regime that has been built up under the SO and the abuses that stem from that. That’s MY take on it and I’m regularly contributing MY bits to the mix.

    Get on the bus, people – it can take you where you want to go if YOU tell the driver.

  40. My opinion:
    Nothing really will happen even if more Scn crimes pop up. Why? If they close Scn they also have e.g. to close roman catholic church if they apply the same policies they applied to close Scn. The only difference to Scn is that Scn is faster then other religious groups in their way down.

  41. Hi Marty,
    first of all thank you very for exposing the truth.
    I would not have found out I guess if you and all the others would not have spoken at SP Times.
    And I´m happy to know now and it would not have happened if I would not have seen the interviews of you all. Every time when the crimes of DM exposed widely Scientologists are more and more confronted to see what is going on with there church. I wish we would have some articles like yours in the german press.
    Here in Germany mostly all is put in one pot:
    Scientology and the CofS. So if DM is doing crimes it will be seen as also Scientology is bad.
    It is nessecary to point on the SP and this is done by your article.
    @swiss : I´m German and you can write to me to

  42. I’ll go with the Fisherman.
    When an individual has poor ethics within a true group you can count on one of the group members to put his ethics in or do what’s necessary to see the situation changed.
    You’re only seeing the Aussies do what they’re doing because this church has gone awry and not corrected itself.
    Personally, I think it’s a compliment to Australia as a group that they are calling for an investigation.
    It is out of their respect for their laws of the land and their love of their individuals/citizens that they will not tolerate the actions of the church.
    As to the subject matter?
    Truth is Truth. It’s not going anywhere now that it’s “out of the bag”. Explain ARC to someone who has never heard of the anatomy of understanding and how it can be used and see if it has value to him.
    That’s why the subject matter of Scientology will survive. Of course it could have been much more by now but it forfieted its potential expansion by neglecting the rights and, ironically, the importance of the individual–those things for which were supposed to be its purpose and motivation.
    Meanwhile there’s going to be some well deserved mayhem.

  43. While it’s not surprising to me that most on this thread want to see a reformed church, I’m thinking that that is flawed thinking, flawed hopes.

    Many if not most of the people still IN the SO, still running the Orgs and even Missions have never experienced standard tech. Many were youngsters, like Aaron, when they joined. With DM gone as part of the reform, they will take over but without the benefit of the experience of ethical leadership.

    And I don’t think for a moment, that independents are going to start running INTO the church to take over management positions.

    We seem to be hard-wired into thinking that the CofS has to continue AS the CofS … just put in good leaders and all is well.

    WHY? Nothing stays the same. After the Communist destruction of Tibet in 1959 (6,000 monasteries destroyed leaving 6 standing) — high lamas fled Tibet.
    (Dalai Lama, Karmapa, Trungpa et al)

    AND Buddhism was brought to the west. There had been NO Tibetan text translated, there are now 100s. Go to Borders, check out Eastern Religion section.

    In 1970 there were NO translated texts. No Tibetan Lamas teaching in the West, today there are dozens and dozens. Today there are stores full of Tibetan iconography, everyone knows about the Dalai Lama.

    In 1959 few knew about the Land of the Snow.

    My point isn’t to “convert” you (smile) but rather to show that perhaps a collapse of the entire edifice of the church, super power building and all — doesn’t necessarily mean THE END of scientology but perhaps a whole new, not yet considered beginning.

    The most important thing, I believe, is to view life with a fluid mind, not fixed mind. It makes for endless possibilities and prevents fixation into MY WAY or the HIGHWAY. (smile)

    (btw — a ban isn’t the end – check history — Christianity survived much worse than a ban, for example)


    • WH, In my opinion, people should contemplate your commentary. Not just this one – but most of them. You may have a more exterior/objective view than anyone.

      • Thank you Marty.

        To continue with a smidge of Tibetan history — the lineages of Tibetan Buddhism historically had sometimes horrific me vs them going on. Lots of intrigue. So all was not sweet and kindness in old Tibet. There was politics and many crimes committed in the name of the lineage. (denomination, if you will)

        There was a huge reform called Rime in late 1800s. This reform embraced the lineages, not mushing them into one but stressing the importance of not demonizing each other.

        When the Dalai Lama fled, he was given refuge in India. Land was granted to the exiled Tibetans by the Indian government. There are about 8,000 resident Tibetans there today.

        Many children born in Dharmasala, of Tibetan parents, were recognized as Tulkus (reincarnations of revered Tibetan lamas) and were tutored and trained to teach.

        These teachers are now adults who teach in the west or have even moved to the west. The examples are numerous.

        The horrific violence and destruction of Tibet of old, did not crush the ideas — instead it enabled them to flourish and grow outside of a closed world, surrounded by mountains.

        Thus once again, showing how it is through our enemies that we can grow.

        Perhaps it is time to gather up as many old LRH books, tapes, you can find … go to used book stores, you’d be amazed what is there. Buy them off e-Bay and begin to learn the tech in a new time. Ponder it, chew on it. And if something seems “wrong” — perhaps you might ask — HAD LRH lived longer, maybe he would have changed it himself.

        It’s really a time – not just in the scn world – to look at our world, our planet and each other not through the lens of yesterday and a projected unknown future but in present time.

        I’m always amazed at what I see.


    • I’ve been around long enough to remember a different scientology, and my first impulse would be to consider mocking up the future scientology along the lines of the missions of the early 70’s, loose, happy, energetic communities/businesses.

      But your post also makes me want to spend a little time envisioning the possibilities without reference to the past.

      Perhap write a list of things I like/things I dont like and see what form takes shape.

      I like some sort of community or fellowship, the christians are good at this…

      I don’t like exclusion for non conforming thinkers..

      I like highly trained, highly competent people around me..

      I dont like rigid structure..

      I like the attitude of purpose above making money..

      I dont like poverty!

      Et cetera.

      I am well breakfasted with your food for thought this morning.


  44. I can see why some people in the public sector do not think that Scientology is a religion.

    The way the church operates doesn’t seem very spiritual to most, including myself.

    If the group called Scientology can’t get it’s ethics in then maybe being reclassified as a “business” would be the penalty it deserves.

    • I have been behind the scenes in a large christian denomination as a vendor and it is business. And in some respects the spiritual aspects are a stage show.

      I think there is a big difference between CHURCHES and RELIGION.

      • Concerned Citizen

        I second that. I am one who finds that Scientology is very legitimately a religion, and that the Churches not just in Scientology but other denominations have a tendency to get used by vested interest for their own purposes and benefit

        Ever read Macchiavelli’s the Prince? though he was assumed to be talking about Borja, he could have been easily describing MD.

  45. My take: anything that brings forth the truth and ends the abuses, the crush regging, etc, is indeed a good thing.

    The good parts of scientology as a philosophy can survive in my view ONLY if there is the actual truth getting out and be known.

    For us who have been in the church the process may be painful (people may generalize and say s/g along the lines of “everything connected to scientology is bad”, we may get restimulated when we get to realize the actual lies we were told, etc) but nevertheless I think people ought to know the complete truth even if at the beginning it hurts or it shakes one’s stable data.

    The good things of scientology will survive, the bad things and that includes the present C. of S. will not. To use scn’s lingo, “theta is separating itself from entheta”. If we want to get on with what was/is useful of scientology the truth has to separate itself from the lies and the lies must be told and acknowledged. This even if at the beginning may hurt, in the long term will give the group a great boost. Theta freed up from entheta will definitely go a long way.

    Lets face it guys: even though we were all well meaning individuals, we did not know the whole story of our church, we have been told lies and sometimes we choosed to believe them even if they were self evident.

    Separating the lies from the truth will do a great deal both for the people who believe in the principles of scientology and for the people who don’t. Then we can all have a fresh good start. In unity. Wheter you want to continue to practice the principles of scientology or not.

    The bottom line: scientology philosphy has a lot of good points but, in its present form, it has also a lot of insidious point. These insidious points came about in part because of DM’s mismanagement, in part because of others covering up or pretending or liying about or simply not confronting something in the philosophy/the management principles/the behaviour of the founder that didn’t work.

    I am not an advocate of shutting down scientology. Quite the contrary. The good parts of the philosophy should survive and will survive, but it’s time to get rid of the bad points.

    I am certain that even the most zealous believer of scientology, down deep, never really liked disconnection, crush regging, splitting up couples, the IAS, the hard life of a Sea Org member, family disconnection, stats push, thursday at 2 pm, rpf assignment, continuos staff sec checking, hate of psychologists and others medical practicioners, zealotry, the idea the the whole world was on an all out to destroy scientology, etc.

    I mean guys, do we REALLY need the above things? Are they really important to make the principles and even auditing work? So why we keep defending them as an integral part of our philosophy? Lets just do away with them.

    This is not about being a squirrel. It is about being sensible.

    Marty thanks for all you are doing.

    And what about that gigantic turkey???



    • Paisano! So good to hear your words of wisdom. I guess everything is bigger in America – and even bigger than that in Texas. Hell, you can even get breakfast in any city 24/7. You da man Paolo. As Katrina says, “Keep it working people!”

    • Paolo,
      Right on! How lovely to audit and help people gain abilities…I mean really, isn’t that the point??? Your entirely sensible presentation resonates with me, thank you!

  46. WH,

    You are absolutely right on! Very well said! 🙂

  47. One can only hope that they investigate and penalize the specific individuals directly responsible for the crimes there in Oz. That is the first point. I don’t like these blanket statements and generalities. However, since they (the Government, I believe) lack true investigation tech, who knows how this thing will pan out.

    Specifically regarding the article, I think it is very clear and to the point. To people on an international basis, this is another good little string sticking out that may lead them to find out more about the corrupt CoS Management. And true Scientologists will know the difference between the invaluable tech and the Church Management and we hope that non Scientologists will be able to separate the two as well.

    I’m far from being a professional writer or blogger, so I sometimes struggle with how to word things. I just give me two cents here and there 🙂

    Again, I really appreciate everyone’s contribution to these posts. They are almost always a breath of fresh air to read.

  48. Marty, if you think getting involved with AU media will further your objective of a ‘reforned’ scientology, then you are sadly mistaken.

    What will eventuate over a period of time will be a revisiting of The Anderson Report and its ultimate conclusions that saw scientology as “an applied religious philosophy” slain and its head put on a spike.

    You’ve previously slagged all over the AU offensive against the CULT of scientology and pretty much all those involved.

    You should realize, that we here where the “kangaroo court”(they were your words Marty) is taking place have constantly kept media and politicians up to date on every scintilla of relevent detail amidst the coming storm for scientology down under . Part of which was putting forth your POV(direct linking to your own words and those words of your fawning followers about the ol’ man and the entirety of scientology as a subject) that is purely KSW and the proliferation of what lrh desired for this sector of the Universe.

    If you choose to continue in a state of denial about what was wrong with scientology, that’s fine and dandy. Blame C.O.B and management all you like, as it won’t change the origination of abuse per policy and doctrine written by lrh himself

    • Wow, Stephan!
      I’m surprised that Marty didn’t obliterate your post rather than publishing it for all the world to see. Maybe he’s getting more “open minded” these days. 😉

      Apropos of that, check out this Gawker article, with a doctored version of a photo taken by LRH during the late 1970s, using Sea Org members dressed in sheets and bathrobes as models. It’s from an Advance! magazine series that explained how Scientology was the culmination of millennia of religious seeking.

  49. My response to Eldon was a bit hard to swallow, huh Marty?
    It’s okay, because for you to allow such responses would maybe open the closed eyes of your followers secretly having reservations about scientology outside their old church enviroment.

    • No, it is just plain wholly negative – serving no purpose but to enturbulate. My sincere advice to you is go out and help somebody. Anybody. Just go out and try to cheer up a stranger.

      • Marty, your method of moderating comments is more about you deciding for others what they should read. Such a thing has a real familiarity about it

        My removed comments about ‘fundamentals of thought’ and “choice” etc , were obviously a long way from enturbulating anyone. But of course, you are compelled to try invalidate such things by throwing the “serving no purpose but to enturbulate” blanket onto anything that may restore inherent logic.
        You certainly cannot have scientologist’s opening the crack any further to the probability of what lrh was and scientology itself is in actuality.

      • martyrathbun09

        Go perform a couple of senseless acts of charity for some random people. You’ll feel a whole hell of a lot better.

    • Oh, there you go again, Stephan! 😉

      But some things that are hard to swallow (call them horse pills or whatever) will not just go away, and Marty knows that. Or at least senses it intuitively.

      Give him some time.

  50. Media is good; government inquiries will simply follow – just part of the light of day being shed on corruption and crimes. In many nations, to turn a blind eye on this stuff is itself a crime, so I say – don’t freak out about government inquiries, let them ROLL. The Catholic Church just got whacked for covering up crimes and human abuses, but their beliefs were not the issue. Keep putting light on the crimes, more light, more light!! Thanks for all your communicating out there, Marty.

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